Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

[Sandraz]

Janpeter,

So I looked up some nutritional info on shellfish on fitday.com I guess what he likes is the lower fat and higher protein in shellfish than say fatty fish like salmon when comparing. Even though there are more good omega 3's in salmon but some SF maybe?

I cup cooked shrimp
Nutrition Facts
Amount Per Serving Calories 208.8
Calories from Fat 30.7 Fat 3.4g 5%
Saturated Fat 0.65 g 3%
Polyunsaturated Fat 1.3g
Monounsaturated Fat 0.5g
Protein 40.0 g 80%


I cup canned salmon
Nutrition Facts
Amount Per Serving Calories 216.8
Calories from Fat 84.9 Fat 9.4g 14%
Saturated Fat 2.3g 12%
Polyunsaturated Fat 3.0g
Monounsaturated Fat2.8g
Protein 30.9 g 62%

[Janpeter]

So I guess Dr Gundry may not be too concerned with cholesterol from food, as shrimp has the most cholesterol of all sea food. So I suppose Eggs are ok to. All good questions.

[Sandraz]

And IF trying to eat fat to be in ketosis anyway, maybe salmon is not such a bad choice after all.

[Welcomeaboard]

My guess is his idea about shellfish revolves around astaxanthin. Salmon has that powerful antioxidant as well.

[Julie G]

All great questions, Giftsplash. I'm also quite interested in his recommendation for EGGS for our population. He is a huge fan for non-E4s. I've been chatting with another patient of his; he's allowed 4 a day. It may be very different for us. I'm also very intrigued with his recommendations for dairy for E4s. The whole A1/A2 cow distinction may be moot for us if dairy is a no-no. Sandra, I share your same question regarding salmon/shrimp.

Giftsplash, I'm sure I'm doing things differently than what Dr. Gundry recommends, but I seem to have the same general idea. I'm traveling & time limited, but below is a link to a previous description of my diet. Jan Peter and Sandra seem to be eating pretty similarly. I'll be very curious to see their new numbers.

My diet:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=308&hilit=My+versio ... genic+diet

I like your idea of collecting questions for Dr. Gundry. Feel free to add your questions here.

[esb76]

He seems to be a huge fan of goat milk since it's both A2 and high in MCTs. I'd love to know what he thinks about goat (milk, kefir/yogurt, butter, cheese) for ApoE 4.

Also would love to know his thoughts on gelatin/collagen (either as a supplement or bone broth) and if those would be off limit for ApoE 4.

[Russ]

Sandraz,

Here is the link for the Robb Wolf podcast…
http://robbwolf.com/2014/07/08/episode- ... -teicholz/

Yes, I believe your understanding of Dayspring's view is correct. For him, it's all about LDL-P which is causative, not just a marker. Dr. Attia largely echoes this view. I think it is the best peer reviewed data so far. But that said, all of that data is on nominally inflamed people. I recall a separate quote from someone last year who had spoken to Attia and got him to admit that the case of high LDL-P with low inflammation is simply an unknown.

FWIW, completely unscientific in biology, but I still don't buy Dayspring's logic which he argues is gradient driven. I think like an engineer. I just can't my mind around how a simple gradient could have this kind of effect without a change in the attractive force - e.g. either inflammation in the wall, or oxidation within the serum particles.

So I think we have to admit that we just don't know yet. The case we care about just hasn't been studied yet to the best of my knowledge. Local empirical result summaries are what we're going to have to work with for quite a while.

[Gilgamesh]

J- Good memory!

An APOE-ε4 human isn't the same as an APOE-knockout rodent -- but there are of course important similarities.

And then there's this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC60864/

"These results are surprising and suggest that, depending on the underlying genotype, dietary MUFA and CARB can actually increase atherosclerosis susceptibility, probably by raising VLDL-C levels through a non-LDL receptor, apoE-dependent pathway."

It's another mouse study, but still interesting.

We should ask Gundry whether he's willing to do a small human trial -- and/or: why hasn't he? Peer-reviewed intervention studies are an essential part of the advancement of science.

GB

[Russ]

G - Just to bookmark that I think this is a legit concern. I am aware of no human culture that powerfed on MUFA's. In fact, the one surprising thing I learned in Big fat Surprise was that even the Mediterranean cultures consumed minimal olive oil until 20th century. Most OO was for religious purposes. There could unintended consequences. Even if markers improve, doesn't mean outcomes will. Again, we have to remain humble and be careful about what we don't know.

[Julie G]

Amen to that, Russ! Aside from offering information and support; one of our purposes in setting up this site was to try to create a prevention protocol for E4s. This looks promising, but I remain wide open to change based on new evidence. And, there will never be a one-size fits all regimen that works for us. We have many more genes at play than ApoE.

That paper was intriguing, G. FWIW, I would guess that the ApoE knock-out mice are more similar to E4s. We exhibit the lowest levels of ApoE. (The LDLR knock-outs are more similar to those with familial hypercholesterolaemia.) Interestingly, the ApoE knock-out mice didn't exhibit signs of atherosclerosis in response to MUFAs... or any of the diets (?) I like the idea of using VLDL-C as a biomarker as it's something we an track. Has anyone eating higher MUFAs exhibited elevated VLDL-C? Mine is always undetectable, reported as N/A. Far from conclusive, but a good marker to keep an eye on. High levels are associated with atherosclerosis.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 003494.htm