Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

[Tincup]

When I learned from Dr. G that pressure cooking would take care of the lectins, before he decided it doesn't always, I started pressure cooking oats. I love oats! But I just didn't feeling right in my gut and was suspecting that maybe the pressure cooker wasn't working, and I cooked them a long time. Later he announced we couldn't pressure cook oats and expect the lectins to be nullified. The only thing I wonder is whether there's a difference between a stovetop pressure cook and an electric one. The stove tops stay at the highest pressure. The Instant Pot doesn't, it gets there and then goes down. I wonder if it would work better using a stovetop pressure cooker. I'm not going to bother though, too much hassle to watch it on the stove.

Though the lady that pressure cooked for a hour - that is a long time with either stovetop or electric cooker!

I only use the cooker for lectin reduction reasons maybe once or twice a month. Of course since I now fast 5 consecutive days out of 14, there are a lot of days I don't eat (having done 9 of these cycles since May 1 and will start # 10 on Monday). A friend who's son is a Gundry patient (son has Crohns and his story is used as an example in Gundry's book) texted me a few days ago asking how long I pressure cooked tomatoes to deactivate lectins. I responded 15 minutes, but that this was a random number (learning from Circular's post from long ago that it was bringing it to pressure/temperature that was important, not a specific time). Turns out his son has gone to college so they were now trying this. They never tried lectin deactivation when their son was at home. The rest of the family still follow the diet, but none of them have autoimmune issues like the son. The son responded in a week to the diet 5 years ago when he became a Gundry patient. I also put my friend in touch with another friend whose 15 year grandson has Crohns. That family is very frustrated as the docs tell them that Crohns has nothing to do with diet and should be treated with antibiotics (which have already led to the kid getting CDIF and needing a fecal transplant). They are excited to try Gundry's program with the grandson.

Thank you for all of this info Tincup. I'm fairly new to the forum. AKA (Andrea)

You are welcome. Welcome to the forum. We feel we are blessed to be treated by Gundry and are glad to share what we learn.

[Ski]

Of course since I now fast 5 consecutive days out of 14, there are a lot of days I don't eat (having done 9 of these cycles since May 1 and will start # 10 on Monday).

That's impressive. Having just finished my first I couldn't imagine doing it that often. Certainly felt better the morning of 6th day but being that weak on it, I didn't like.


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[circular]

(learning from Circular's post from long ago that it was bringing it to pressure/temperature that was important, not a specific time).

Oh my, I've never been certain of this. I wonder how I phrased it that I came across as if it were conclusive Or do I just forget something I read about that? I'm skeptical it would be the case in all foods, especially oats, which I pressure cooked good and long (easily an hour) in the Instant Pot and still had problems. I'm not sure but what grain lectins may be harder to destroy than veggie lectins??? Larger molecules in grains???

[Tincup]

That's impressive. Having just finished my first I couldn't imagine doing it that often. Certainly felt better the morning of 6th day but being that weak on it, I didn't like.

I'm really not weak when I do this. I fasted through the San Diego conference as Julie and Stavia will attest - even though I paid for all the meals and just attended to socialize. I've skied Pali (for Ski's benefit as I'm sure he knows what I'm talking about), 34k' vert on the the second day of a fast in May. I was a little less able on Pali on the 5th day.

When I'm in town, I continue to do this little experiment at the gym on day 5 of the fast & I've been able to increase either time under load or load each time. I've rock climbed six hours in Clear Creek Canyon. I always continue my body weight suspension training TRX Military Fitness workouts during the fast days. Perhaps it is being keto-adapted since Oct 2009, I'm so adapted it just isn't a big deal. I did experience continued adaptation for a long time (though more subtle than in the beginning).

[jenbehappy]

Very interesting interview.
When he says that APOE4's don't do well with animal fat is he saying that fat is ok as long as it does not come with cholesterol?
What is it in animal fat that is not present in coconut fat for example that makes it bad for us?

I have the same question. if small dense ldl are normal (less than 90) then its ok to eat animal fat? Is it animal fat the problem or animal protein? Why is it a problem?

[floramaria]

Very interesting interview.
When he says that APOE4's don't do well with animal fat is he saying that fat is ok as long as it does not come with cholesterol?
What is it in animal fat that is not present in coconut fat for example that makes it bad for us?

I have the same question. if small dense ldl are normal (less than 90) then its ok to eat animal fat? Is it animal fat the problem or animal protein? Why is it a problem?

Welcome Jenbehappy!

Good question! Sorry that I cannot answer it. Will defer to those on the website with in depth understanding of Gundry's recommendations. I am also interested in the answer.

Meanwhile, I want to welcome you to the website! Since you joined the website months ago, you may have already discovered the Primer: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1418.
If you haven't seen it yet , I highly recommend you check it out.
It was written by Stavia, a physician member of the site, and provides a solid scientific background and steps towards reducing the increased risks of AD and cardiovascular disease associated with the ApoE4 allele.

Please continue to post your questions. While there is a variety of approaches, we are all here to support each other in the journey towards optimizing health.

[SusanJ]

Jen, animal fat has to do with saturated fats, which are longer chain fatty acids (or have more carbon molecules). Many of us see our LDL go up when we eat saturated fats, because e4s start with a higher baseline LDL, and high dietary saturated fat drives LDL synthesis at hepatocyte level. Coconut oil is another saturated fat, but is considered a shorter chain fatty acid than animal fats.

If you want to know more, I suggest spending some time in the primer, starting at viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1418&start=10#p15813 because lipids are a complex area without a simple answer.

[jenbehappy]

Jen, animal fat has to do with saturated fats, which are longer chain fatty acids (or have more carbon molecules). Many of us see our LDL go up when we eat saturated fats, because e4s start with a higher baseline LDL, and high dietary saturated fat drives LDL synthesis at hepatocyte level. Coconut oil is another saturated fat, but is considered a shorter chain fatty acid than animal fats.

If you want to know more, I suggest spending some time in the primer, starting at viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1418&start=10#p15813 because lipids are a complex area without a simple answer.

I have been eating animal fat, grass fed butter, grass fed beef and coconut oil for over a year. I started ketogenic diet because I needed to reduce pain in my thumb arthritis and lose 10 lb. It worked. I didn't know I had ApoE3/4 until few months ago. But my blood work and lipids are good, I think?
B12: 1894
Vit D3: 50.9
AST: 24
ALT: 18
Homosysteine 7.7 (maybe high?)
HgbA1c : 5.2
TC: 210
TG: 54
HDL-c: 76
small dense: <90
Total Cholesterol : HDL =Ratio: 2.7
Trig : HDL = Ratio : 0.7
Fasting insulin: 2.4 Low
LP-IR Score (Insulin Resistance): <25
C-Reactive Protein, Cardiac: 0.15
Apolipoprotein A-1: 187
Apolipoprotein B: 101
Apolipo. B/A-1 Ratio: 0.5

Do you think its ok to neat animal fat with this blood work? Is small dense ldl Dr. Gundry is worry about when eating animal fat?
Thank you

[TheresaB]

jenbehappy wrote:
giftsplash wrote:
Very interesting interview.
When he says that APOE4's don't do well with animal fat is he saying that fat is ok as long as it does not come with cholesterol?
What is it in animal fat that is not present in coconut fat for example that makes it bad for us?

I have the same question. if small dense ldl are normal (less than 90) then its ok to eat animal fat? Is it animal fat the problem or animal protein? Why is it a problem?

First, is fat ok as long as it does not come with cholesterol?

Not exactly. Granted, from his experience with his patients he has found that ApoE4s tend to not do well with animal fat, that it tends to raise our sdLDLs. sdLDLs are the ones that “get stuck” and oxidize. Oxidized LDLs or oxLDLs are “sticky” and problematic. In the past, he’s tested for sdLDLs as an indicator for what the oxLDLs are likely to be. Now he has a test for oxLDL directly.

As discussed in the ApoE4.info wiki, https://www.apoe4.info/wiki/Dr_Gundry%27s_Protocol he doesn’t say ApoE4s should stay away from animal products all together, but he does have cautions and specific recommendations.

In his book, “Plant Paradox” he cautions everyone, regardless of genotype, about beef, pork, and lamb, even grass fed, because of a sugar molecule Neu5c, which our immune systems recognize as foreign leading to an autoimmune attack and because cancer cells use Neu5c to hide from immune cells. He says we have no means of manufacturing Neu5c, but tumor cells contain large amounts of Neu5c, so they got it from the lamb, beef or pork.

Unless pasture raised, he’s not a fan of chicken because of what they’re fed. Similarly with farmed fish/shellfish.

Is it animal fat or animal protein?

There’s also an issue with animal protein. Again, a caution he cites to everyone, regardless of genotype, but of particular interest to ApoE4s. This has to do with consumption of animal protein which activates the mTOR pathway. mTOR is associated with cellular aging and is associated with AD pathology, so it’s best for us to keep that activation low. Animal protein and sugars also tend to raise IGF-1 and a low IGF-1 is associated with a longer, healthier lifespan.

What is it in animal fat that is not present in coconut fat for example that makes it bad for us?

Actually, coconut oil is a saturated fat and Dr Gundry recommends ApoE4s stay away from coconut oil too.

[Russ]

In his book, “Plant Paradox” he cautions everyone, regardless of genotype, about beef, pork, and lamb, even grass fed, because of a sugar molecule Neu5c, which our immune systems recognize as foreign leading to an autoimmune attack and because cancer cells use Neu5c to hide from immune cells. He says we have no means of manufacturing Neu5c, but tumor cells contain large amounts of Neu5c, so they got it from the lamb, beef or pork.

Just linking in this prior thread wherein I challenge the merits of Gundry's Neu5Gc argument...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3041&p=37749&hilit= ... net#p37749

From that, and per Paul Jaminet's excellent dive into the topic, it might be a question of concern if you have Hashimoto's. If not, I continue to think this argument is not well founded. For further pushback on this specific Neu5Gc aspect, you might also read Chris Kresser's discussion of the subject in the transcript of a conversation he had with Robb Wolf...

http://robbwolf.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... on-253.pdf

As always, happy to hear further objective insights on this subject, but Gundry's un-cited argument is his book was one of the lowlights in my view. Love the guy and all that he has and is doing, but this is one a few points where I think he needs to either sharpen his case or reconsider it.