Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

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Nick wrote:Does anyone know links of good summaries of Bredesen, Gundry, this thread (with over 500 posts) and/or related? I've requested Gundy's book from the library but so have a bunch before me. I have a bunch of tabs open pursuing all sorts of rabbit (or rat) holes and the whole APOE 4 thing plays to my ADD (ADHD with coffee) quite well.

Sometimes I feel that the time I may extend my life by adapting to the APOE 4/3 impact will be less than the time spent figuring it out :(

Anyway ... any good summaries out there?
Nick, may not be as concise as you'd like, however, we posted transcripts of our 4 conversations with Dr. Gundry: this 1st post , 2nd post and latest post. In the 2nd post, we also link to a lot of Bredesen's stuff. In the first post, there is a quick summary of what Gundry told us at the beginning of the post.

As for Bredesen, listening to this interview may be the best overview.
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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

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Thanks a bunch! That helps. And it avoids me looking for something that is not there.
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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

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Nick,

I’m going to assume NO familiarity with either Dr Bredesen or Dr Gundry and attempt a quick intro of both here.

Dr Gundry was holding brilliant career as a cardiothorasic surgeon/inventor when about 15 years ago he met a patient who had significantly reduced the occlusion in his blood vessels with diet/supplements. This reinvigorated Dr Gundry’s interest in genetics and the evolution of the human diet which was the theme of his undergraduate thesis at Yale. Dr Gundry quit his position at Loma Linda University to form his own institute and concentrate on restorative medicine so he could help people live long, healthy lives through diet and supplements instead of operating on them. When he began his institute, he sought out ApoE4s because of the connection to cardiovascular disease, so he probably has more direct knowledge of addressing (manipulating?) this gene than any other practicing doctor, but his interest is in health for the whole body, he’s not an “Alzheimer’s Doctor.”

He wrote a book “Diet Evolution” back in 2009. It discusses his findings of the disconnect between today’s modern diet and the food our genes really need for healthy living. But his publishers edited the book a fair amount for sales emphasizing weight loss, so it doesn’t fully address his dietary philosophy. Dr Gundry has another book coming out in April 2017, “The Plant Paradox”

As he has guided us, Dr Gundry’s program consists of:
  • 1. Minimizing insulin production through low carb, high good fat diet
    2. Minimizing lectins
    3. Feeding the gut biome
    4. Minimizing sdLDL (small dense LDL cholesterol)
    5. Avoiding bad oils (seed oils, vegetable oils) and emphasizing olive oil
    6. Not activating mTOR pathway or spiking IGF-1 by limiting animal protein to 20g/day
    7. Eating raw as much as possible (avoiding processed foods)
    8. Fasting
    9. Consuming polyphenols
He places his patients on what he calls a “Matrix Diet” (see attached) but modifies (usually further restricts) the diet based on a patient’s health issues, biomarkers, genetics. For ApoE4s he emphasizes:
  • 1. Limiting animal protein to only (wild caught) white fish, (wild caught) shellfish and Omega-3 or pastured eggs, with shellfish being the animal protein of choice due to it’s sdLDL lowering quality. He also emphasizes Fish Oil, emphasizing the Fish Oil pills with lots of DHA.
    2. No cheese, it is not our friend – cheese has the strongest correlation to production of oxidized particles of LDL levels.
    3. Lowering Triglycerides (lessening sugars, fruits, seeded vegetables) to reduce oxidized LDL
Dr Bredesen is a UCLA professor and founding president of the Buck Institute on Aging. He has been researching neurodegeneration for about 3 decades now. Back in 2012 his career also took a turn when met a woman who was dealing with cognitive issues who’d witnessed her mother’s battle with Alzheimer’s. He was a researcher, he didn't see patients, but gave her information on his research. She experienced a turnaround and his career took a turn.

Dr Bredesen considers Alzheimer’s “Disease” to be the result of the body working overtime in trying to protect itself from several metabolic and toxic insults. Dr Bredesen uses the analogy of having a roof with 36 holes in it (this just for illustration purposes, it’s based on his original findings, there are more than 36 contributors to Alzheimer’s). A person doesn’t have to suffer from all these influencers to get Alzheimer’s, but no one “hole” will result in Alzheimer’s either, it takes a number of these issues to stack up. If you plug one hole, you still have cognitive problems, which is why so many of the drug trials for AD have failed, they’ve only tried to address one contributor. But if you plug enough holes, you will tilt your body’s metabolic “teeter totter” away from Alzheimer’s (and likely other diseases as well).

Dr. Bredesen’s Protocol begins with Diet, Exercise, Stress (as in reducing it) and Sleep. He also incorporates other interventions addressing hormonal balance, supplements, drugs, brain stimulation, etc.

His diet is basically a mildly ketogenic Mediterranean diet (a real Med diet, not like Olive Garden with unlimited breadsticks and pasta). He encourages folks to eat an unlimited amount of non-starchy veggies, a small amount of animal protein (primarily wild-caught low mercury seafood for ApoE4s) and generous amounts of healthy fats (olives, nuts, avocados, high polyphenol EVOO.) He also emphasizes fasting 3 hours before going to bed with a total overnight fast of 12 hours for everyone and a 16 hours fast for ApoE4s.

His papers include:
  • “Reversal of Cognitive decline: A Novel Therapeutic Program” published Sept 2014. This paper outlines the protocol from which he was able to reverse cognitive issues, which he called MEND 1.0. His protocol has since been tweaked, but this is the foundation from which he’s continued to build.
    “Metabolic profiling distinguishes three subtypes of Alzheimer's disease” in August 2015
    “Inhalational Alzheimer’s Disease: An unrecognized – and treatable epidemic” in February 2016.

Dr Bredesen was associated with Muses lab. Muses lab still continues to assist patients with their MEND protocol, but Dr Bredesen divested his association with them a couple years ago. An amicable break I understand. Dr Bredesen is now associated with MPI cognition.

Dr Bredesen has a documentary film and book “The End of Alzheimer's: The First Program to Prevent and Reverse Cognitive Decline” coming out in August of this year (2017).
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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

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Nicely done TheresaB!!! This would make a good introduction to this post if posted up front. There is much to said for condensing these threads to the core nuggets.

I like the PDF. I think in terms of food items, not in macronutrients. I've pondered the thought of a spreadsheet with various food groups and specific foods down one axis and "Diet" (Gundry, Bredesen, MindSpan, APT, Dash, MIND, Mediterranean, etc) across the top. Then a score per intersecting cell per E4. It would be interesting to see the commonality, the opposites and the weight (4 out of 5 Diets recommend xxx for AD prevention :-) ) for each intersection and food. But that is not a trivial undertaking.
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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

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Bredesen and others often call for 2 or 3 hours fast before bedtime. Does anyone know if that reason/purpose or was it simply "because"? Or put another way, is 15 hours fast with 3 before bedtime functionally equivalent to 15 hours fasting starting at bedtime?
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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

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Nick wrote:Bredesen and others often call for 2 or 3 hours fast before bedtime. Does anyone know if that reason/purpose or was it simply "because"? Or put another way, is 15 hours fast with 3 before bedtime functionally equivalent to 15 hours fasting starting at bedtime?
No, Bredesen calls for at least 12 hour fast (and I think it is 16 hours for E4's) starting 3 hours before bed.

Theresa does a 16 hour fast starting 3 hours before bed. I do a 22 hour fast starting 3 hours before bed.

I'm not sure Bredesen's reason, however in this interview, Ruth Patterson notes that in a breast cancer recurrence study, breast cancer survivors who fasted >=13 hours starting at 8PM or before had a 40% lower chance of recurrence. This benefit went away if the fast started after 8PM.
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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

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Ruth Patterson notes that in a breast cancer recurrence study, breast cancer survivors who fasted >=13 hours starting at 8PM or before had a 40% lower chance of recurrence. This benefit went away if the fast started after 8PM.
That is really quite fascinating. It likely will affect my IF timing and thanks for the link.

What follows is not a value judgment of her work. More so, as a technical problem solver personality, a summary of some thoughts I had. If I was Patterson, I'd be thinking ... that was interesting, not conclusive, not necessarily cause and affect and let's look into this more controlling more factors to see what falls out.

Patterson said that they did not control for what was eaten up to the beginning of the fast. So that begs the questions:
- Was the impact related to the timing of the fast start?
- Or did what they ate prior to starting the fast affect the outcome (reduced cancer risk)?
.... - Was there a disproportionate amount of eating bad xxxx just prior to bedtime? ( ??? ice cream,chocolate syrup and peanuts ...One of my loves/sins)
.... - Some propose that the sugar in toothpaste is enough to throw off ketosis (read as affecting the fast for purposes herein). Did the fast really start 3 hours earlier?

A researcher I read was discussing mice calorie restriction studies and asked the question ... was the life extension benefit related to the restricted calories ... or from from eating less of the food they feed mice (which he likened to sugar cookies). That comment was not meant to trigger a CR tangent in this discussion herein. It was more so a thought related to knowing how to tag the benefit to the absence of XXX (what was eaten before fasting) or the inclusion of YYY(fasting before sleeping). Especially when these factors are not controlled for.

Another thought is to go camping in February in MN. Seriously. You'll find that you are ready to sleep at 7 or 8 PM. The same scouts that would be raising hell until midnight in July were in their sleeping bags by 9 (or earlier) in February. It gets so dark so early, it is so cold (-8F that night) and there is little to do that you will be in your warm cozy sleeping bag way earlier than our 120Vac (220Vac) assisted life promotes. In this cases, fasting 3 hours earlier means starting as early as 4:00PM. This is not a value judgement of Patterson's comments or studies. She did theorize that this fast time may have coincided with our ancestors patterns. It is more so the observation that 10,000 years ago (200 years ago?), mankind did not stay up till 10:30 and go to bed. They likely followed nature's patterns more than we do. They lead a different lifestyle be it better or worse.

As stated above, it likely will affect my IF timing mainly because in the absence of a negative, the positive displayed could be real.

Now I'm done thinking about this for a while ;)
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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

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Here's what I dug up a while back about not eating starting three hours before sleep.

Increased insulin level from eating exerts an inhibitory effect on the pineal gland and melatonin release. And conversely, melatonin down regulates insulin release. So essentially you're trying to keep your melatonin on track to get you to sleep, and if melatonin is being released and you eat, then you're not able to handle the blood glucose rise.

Role of melatonin on diabetes-related metabolic disorders (2011)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3158876

Melatonin and Pancreatic Islets: Interrelationships between Melatonin, Insulin and Glucagon (2013)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3645673/

Nick, we have a wiki where some folks have summarized a few topics. Since we're all volunteer here, the compilations don't always happen in a timely manner. A couple folks worked on one for Bredesen: https://wiki.apoe4.info/wiki/Bredesen_Protocol

There currently isn't one for Gundry.
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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

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Nick wrote:Bredesen and others often call for 2 or 3 hours fast before bedtime. Does anyone know if that reason/purpose or was it simply "because"? Or put another way, is 15 hours fast with 3 before bedtime functionally equivalent to 15 hours fasting starting at bedtime?
This is the explanation from Dr Bredesen that is included in a software generated report analyzing lab results (sorry, no references!):

1. Fast for at least 12 hours between the end of dinner and the beginning of breakfast. This allows autophagy to occur, which helps your brain to destroy aggregated proteins and other unwanted accumulated molecules. It is best to break the fast with water with some lemon, as a detoxifying drink.
2. Fast for at least 3 hours prior to going to bed. This helps to prevent insulin from inhibiting melatonin and growth hormone, and thus improves sleep and immune function.
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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

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Besides melatonin/sleep issues, yep, insulin, glucose or proteins can stop autophagy, too.

Best explanation I've seen is at Jason Fung's site:

https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/ ... asting-25/
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