Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

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SusanJ
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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

Postby SusanJ » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:47 pm

Circ, IL-6 is associated with upregulating Th17 (T cell helper cells) response, and Th17 cells are implicated in chronic inflammatory and autoimmune responses, like rheumatoid arthritis, the inflammatory bowel diseases, asthma, multiple sclerosis, psoriasis and many others.

IL-6 in Inflammation, Immunity, and Disease
http://cshperspectives.cshlp.org/conten ... 16295.full

Specific to CVD:
Association between Serum Interleukin-6 Concentration and Mortality in Patients with Coronary Artery Disease
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/mi/2013/726178/

Th17 cells produce IL-17a, which amplifies inflammation by producing TNF-a cytokines among others.

Interleukin-17 and acute coronary syndrome
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3735965/

But here's an interesting one I just read:
Atherosclerosis is a chronic inflammatory arterial disease driven by both innate and adaptive immune responses to modified lipoproteins and components of the injured vascular wall. Specific T lymphocyte responses driven by T helper-1 or T regulatory cells play distinct and opposing roles in atherosclerosis. More recently, T helper-17 cells, which produce the prototype cytokine interleukin-17, have been characterized and shown to be critical in mucosal host defense against microbial and fungal pathogens. Sustained production of interleukin-17 in an inflammatory context has been linked to the pathology of several autoimmune and inflammatory diseases. However, regulatory and protective roles have also been reported in selective disease settings. Studies in atherosclerosis led to conflicting results on the roles of interleukin-17 and T helper-17 cells in disease development and plaque stability. The present review provides a summary of the available evidence and putative mechanisms linking this pathway to atherosclerosis, as well as a perspective on the risks and benefits of interleukin-17–targeted cytokine therapy in patients at high cardiovascular risk.

http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/ear ... 114.303567

Hmm, maybe related to CIRS???

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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

Postby SusanJ » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:50 am

Circ, just want to say that I'm not necessarily a CIRS conspiracy theorist. :lol:

But, I want to add that you see activated Th17 with rheumatoid arthritis, so I've looked a little at these pathways and genetic variants related to cytokines like IL-6. There is a theory of infectious origins of rheumatoid arthritis, most recently looking at gut and oral microbiome bacterial overgrowths (e.g. Porphyromonas, Prevotella and Leptotricha). There is a demonstrated link between periodontal disease and RA. And for years before researchers understood this bacterial connection, they did observe that heavy duty antibiotic treatment could resolve some RA cases.

Whacked oral or gut microbiomes could certainly lead to chronic inflammation if not resolved...

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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

Postby Harrison » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:59 am

Regarding IL-6, it's also interesting to note that Bredesen thinks that ApoE4 specifically drives IL-6 as mentioned in a paper that was discussed here:
https://www.apoe4.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1915

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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

Postby Tincup » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:32 pm

VictorN wrote:
Juliegee wrote:According to Dr. Gundry, vegetables are the vehicle to deliver EVOO to your mouth. However, he is strongly opposed to vegetarianism and veganism due to poor health outcomes; metabolic syndrome, high levels of inflammation, CAD, etc.


Seriously?


Victor, I would say this is not an accurate characterization of Gundry's protocol. For my wife and I as Gundry patients, our diet is mostly vegan. He allows us up to 20g protein/day (about a 4 oz serving) from allowed non-veg sources. For ApoE4's this includes shellfish (preferred), white fish or omega 3/pastured eggs. Our diet is high fat, with most of the fat coming from unfiltered extra virgin olive oil (he encourages the highest polyphenol content), avocados (or avo oil) & his allowed tree nuts (his "Matrix" food list is uploaded much earlier in this thread, by me here: https://www.apoe4.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=570&p=16389&hilit=gundry+wife+sdldl+Singulex#p16389) also coconut/MCT oil though my wife eats it, I don't as I react to coconut. He told me 30% of his patients are E4's. I'm guessing the quote is about what he saw at Loma Linda - "pastatarians" as he calls them. We have a huge variety of raw veggies daily from his list (our salad - I eat 1x/day - usually has 12-20 different items in it). In selecting items, I follow Terry Walhs' adaptation of Bruce Ames' Triage Theory - 1/3 deep greens, 1/3 sulfur containing and 1/3 colored all the way though with at least 3 colors. In our case, we have quite a few days that are purely vegan. I'm guessing much more varied than many vegans I know. I look at his work as an ongoing interventional study. He does standardized, very extensive lab tests on all patients (copies of our first tests are uploaded in the post after the post I linked to above). He suggests they do "X" and then see's what happens. For example, he has observed that land animal fat will increase sdLDL in E4's. He remarked that one patient had an sdLDL of 12 mg/dL and then he started eating goat cheese. The next sdLDL went to 30 mg/dL (which is still barely within his standard). I've not posted our followup results, but our inflammatory markers are all in line and my HbA1c is 4.7%, my wife's is 4.4%. My wife was vegan before starting this and her inflammation results improved - most likely because of vegan foods she dropped that were not on his list (i.e. lectins).
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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

Postby buck3Maureen » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:44 pm

Hi George,
Your latest post regarding Dr. Gundy's APOE4 diet recommendations stated:
" For ApoE4's this includes shellfish (preferred), "

I have been eating a vegan diet for a few months. I know I need to get more information and tweak it so I am reading "The Alzheimer's Prevention & Treatment Diet" by Isaacson. On page 108 he states ' ..do not eat large amounts of shellfish, which is not technically within the "brain healthy" category -...'

I have been thinking about eating seafood once a week -- now I am very confused about shellfish.

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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

Postby Tincup » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:51 pm

buck3Maureen wrote:Hi George,
Your latest post regarding Dr. Gundy's APOE4 diet recommendations stated:
" For ApoE4's this includes shellfish (preferred), "

I have been eating a vegan diet for a few months. I know I need to get more information and tweak it so I am reading "The Alzheimer's Prevention & Treatment Diet" by Isaacson. On page 108 he states ' ..do not eat large amounts of shellfish, which is not technically within the "brain healthy" category -...'

I have been thinking about eating seafood once a week -- now I am very confused about shellfish.


Can't answer Maureen. This is what Gundry suggests. I know it is useful from his perspective from an sdLDL point of view. Not sure what Isaacson's beef (haha) is. Maybe their higher levels of copper? Or perhaps a view on cholesterol in shellfish. Gundry tells us the shellfish cholesterol actually helps clear arteries. We probably eat it 2x/week, with white fish 2/x and eggs or pure vegan the other days. Also our egg content is modest as in an egg dish my wife & I split 4 eggs.
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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

Postby circular » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:22 pm

I can't explain Dr. Isaacson's POV either. I'd forgotten he wrote that so thanks for the reminder. I think someone here is his patient (???) and maybe can ask? Or someone with an 'in' to Max the Breadhead man?
GeorgeN wrote:Gundry tells us the shellfish cholesterol actually helps clear arteries.

What Dr. Gundry told me was the studies they did to show that shellfish are high in cholesterol was before they knew the differences between and how to measure different types of sterols. While the shellfish may still have cholesterol as part of their overall sterol environment, it's the sterols they're high in that help clear arteries. The way he put it to me, if I recall correctly, is that the shellfish helps keep cholesterol from oxidizing, which he also states e4s are prone to. If oxidized cholesterol is more likely to stick to the vessel walls and do damage than be carried away, than it makes sense he'd want e4s eating shellfish.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

Postby circular » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:24 pm

At one point when I heard Dr. Gundry wanted us eating a lot of shellfish I worried about the copper. I suppose this can be easily monitored if tracking your copper and zinc and copper:zinc ratio. Apparently copper can be lowered if need be by zinc supplementation (as long as you need your zinc to go up too) and/or liposomal vitamin c.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

Postby circular » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:43 pm

SusanJ wrote:Circ, just want to say that I'm not necessarily a CIRS conspiracy theorist. :lol:

:lol: It's okay, I love you anyway :D You are so hip with all your pathways! So glad I asked about this. Will have to come back and spend time on it.

One thing came to mind for now: In Sept my IL-17A was 'moderate' at 2.8 but my IL-6 was normal. If IL-6 is the precursor to IL-17A via T17 helpers, then I wonder why it was lower. TNF-a was normal. All I can think is that I had the labs done 2 weeks after a chest cold. He said it could still be affecting my markers and wants to see them when that's not the case. Maybe the IL-6 had already turned off and the IL-17a was winding down. Will just note that and see what happens next time. It sure fits with:
More recently, T helper-17 cells, which produce the prototype cytokine interleukin-17, have been characterized and shown to be critical in mucosal host defense against microbial and fungal pathogens.

It seems as if Dr. Gundry knew this when we discussed the situation.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Dr. Steven Gundry with diet recommendations for ApoE4

Postby VictorN » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:07 pm

Hi George,

Thanks for the link. So, Gundry suggests eating as much shellfish as possible but, at the same time, he warns against raising IGF-1 ("Want to minimize IGF-1 ... . Best way to do this is to minimize sugars, starches and animal protein. The issue with animal protein (including shellfish and eggs) is methionine, leucine and iso leucine", "More we stay away from animal protein and fats, the better", "Study said IGF-1 not lowered by calorie restriction but was lowered by animal protein restriction").

Isn't it a bit contradictory?


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