Our 3rd annual meet-up will piggyback on the LowCarb USA conference in San Diego, CA, August 3-6.

Disturbed sleep & AD

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
User avatar
Gilgamesh
Mod
Mod
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:31 am
Location: Northeast US mostly
Contact:

Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Gilgamesh » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:01 am

Stavia, my sleep problem is a weird one. I would have no problem being a lark, but that's not what's happened in the past when I got my body wanting to go to bed earlier: I still woke up after insufficient time sleeping. I really need 7.5-8 hours of sleep, but my SCN seems designed for a more rapidly rotating planet.

The idea of switching on melatonin "more effectively" is intriguing, but I assume that it's being switched on as effectively as possible once it's pitch black out. It's just that it shuts off too few hours later (whatever the clock on this planet says). It's still pitch black, no wireless routers or cellphones nearby, nothing external that would suppress melatonin, but I just start waking up before I've gotten the amount of sleep I need! Drives me crazy. A partner of mine once joked: "Your body is kinda 'tarded in that way." Right on the money. 1) Body needs more sleep; 2) body won't take what it needs, despite ample opportunity. Crazy making, especially given what you point out -- sleep quality is critical for us.

My understanding is that zolpidem affects deep sleep much less than the benzos, which is why zolpidem would probably be the drug I'd try first. But not yet!! I'm going to take your advice and try the blue-blocking earlier in the evening (though I can't do it now because of numerous evening engagements in the coming two or so weeks).

Actually, I also started glycine a few days ago -- 5 g at bedtime. It might be helping; not sure yet. [1]

Oh and I've been taking varying amounts (still experimenting) of passiflora after my first waking, if it's before the 3 hour mark (which it usually is -- and that early I DO get back to sleep). Don't think it's helping.

[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Glycine+sleep+quality

User avatar
Gilgamesh
Mod
Mod
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:31 am
Location: Northeast US mostly
Contact:

Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Gilgamesh » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:05 am

And circ., yes... I really trudge on bad sleep days.

Adding to the old bin. beats thread now, by the way.

J- We're all learning!

User avatar
KatieS
Mod
Mod
Posts: 986
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:45 pm

Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby KatieS » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:57 am

Stavia, I've ordered these blue-blocking glasses:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000US ... UTF8&psc=1 Last night I used this eye mask:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GP1 ... UTF8&psc=1
Just felt like I had deeper sleep blocking out all the light.

Although I always sleep better with the windows open and in the winter, this study (n=5) begins to explain the need for cooler temperatures during sleep as the coolness may decrease those dreaded metabolic changes:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/1 ... e-bedroom/

G, definitely request a copy of your full sleep study this month, as it should reflect why you have the awakenings.

circular
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 3240
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:43 am

Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby circular » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:37 am

Gilgamesh, I remember you and I having similar chronic sleep issues. I am so much better just in the last 6 months. I'm not taking drugs other than 4.5 melatonin (which isn't what's helping). It's the brainwave sleep app that's helped the most I think - the Dreamy Sleep or Deep Sleep programs in particular, with no sound track over them to be a distraction if I wake up. http://www.banzailabs.com/brainwaveapps.html

I also for years have used a soft, light-blocking eye mask from Brookstone but left it by accident on my last trip. I then started using one of those spa-like eye pillows full of kind of weighty seeds or something. This one has lavender in it and smells good. Just had it sitting around for years. Anyway, the weightiness of it helps the eye muscles and ones around them relax some and I think is also good.

I am extremely sensitive to the effects of stress on my sleep. These days it's only when the stress gets to a certain point it affects my sleep again, or like yesterday I needed to get up early for a fasting blood draw but got to bed a little too late to get 8 hours in. Paid all day.

I really think the brainwave app - for me (didn't work for someone else here) - has been amazing. Unfortunately I think it's only on iPhone, but maybe if you can find a used iPod you can use that instead to try? I'll bet in time there will be a "medical device" version of the concept for sleep issues.

Well having written all that I am moving next Friday across the country and my belongings are getting all boxed up. This may be enough to throw my sleep completely off track, but so far so good. I am focused on being ahead of the game so I won't get too stressed and lose sleep during this last week and the trip out.

One more thing. I've always keep Ambien, benedryl and Klonapin on hand. I seldom use them, but when I'm really out of whack I will pick one and take just a half dose for a night or two. It helps reset my stupid self without being dependent. I think Klonapin works best. While I hate taking a benzo, with that one I just take a 1/4 dose and it's enough. It dials the stress back enough for me to get perspective again. Ultimately these have been just temporary relief from the chronic problem. I find I need them less now but will use them if needed to get through this move.

I love my morning coffee, but when my system is really whacked as far as sleep I find green tea is the ticket - energizing and calming at the same time. I'm also a slow metabolizer so stopped having my after lunch 2nd cup of coffee. Now I stick to two cups before noon. Anything after that is iced green tea, which for some reason won't affect my sleep if taken in the afternoon but green tea does (!).
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

User avatar
Juliegee
Mod
Mod
Posts: 5921
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:36 pm

Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Juliegee » Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:07 pm

I just wanted to throw out one other idea to improve sleep. This is something I've learned through trial and error. Be careful not to take any B vitamins, curcumin, or citicoline after noon. They all have fairly strong stimulant effects.

User avatar
SusanJ
Mod
Mod
Posts: 1660
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:33 am
Location: Central Colorado

Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby SusanJ » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:24 pm

I'd add Vitamin D in that list, too. I do best taking it in the morning.

User avatar
Gilgamesh
Mod
Mod
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:31 am
Location: Northeast US mostly
Contact:

Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Gilgamesh » Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:31 am

Thanks again, everyone, for the support and tips. My sleep study is next week, and I'll give a full report after that, along with responses to the various ideas shared here.

One quick thing I thought I'd mention: glycine seems to be helping!

I first got interested in glycine because of its potential (only potential: much more work is needed) anti-aging properties:

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeti ... acts/528.2

Then I saw some studies showing it improved sleep quality (not quantity).

I thought, what the heck, I'll try it. So I bought a pound container of glycine powder and started taking 5g at bedtime. The effect was dramatic -- on sleep quantity. Instead of my normal four hours of sleep per night, suddenly I was getting over five. Now, a couple weeks later, I'm up to nearly six hours/night. I'm amazed.

OK, back to the clinic to figure out what's happening with my throat. (Now they think oral lichen planus!!)

User avatar
Stavia
Mod
Mod
Posts: 3932
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:47 pm
Location: Middle Earth

Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Stavia » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:14 am

Oh that is wonderful! Sweet dreams.
Please let us know the sleep study and possible lichen planus outcomes?

Sandraz
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:15 am

Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Sandraz » Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:18 am

Hi Gilgamesh,
Here is an interesting article on glycine, proline and gelatin from the Weston price site and about food sources of glycine:

"A better solution would be to improve their collagen status by adding gelatin to their diets in the form of gelatin-rich broth used in soups, stews and sauces. This traditional food, which has nearly disappeared from the American table, fits the “you are what you eat” prescription to a T. Manufactured gelatin is also a useful item in that it is nothing less than heat-denatured collagen. However, because manufactured gelatin contains small amounts of MSG, it should be avoided by those who are sensitive to it."

http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topi ... d-gelatin/

Not talking about glycine for sleep so much, but that Glycine might also be considered a “conditionally essential” amino acid.

"To meet so many and diverse metabolic demands, glycine must be readily available. The body can make it, obviously, but there are plenty of reasons to think that even normal, healthy people might not be able to make enough. For example, researchers found that the endogenous synthesis of glycine in adult men on low-protein diets failed to satisfy the normal metabolic demand"
Sandra Z
E4,E4

User avatar
Gilgamesh
Mod
Mod
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:31 am
Location: Northeast US mostly
Contact:

Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Gilgamesh » Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:48 am

Sandra, thanks. Yes, I've dug into the glycine research. Mostly I was worried that the huge dose needed for sleep might be dangerous, but, if anything, the opposite is probably true, esp. for a (mostly) vegan like me. Some studies have people taking something like 1g/kg body weight! But even that appears completely safe.


Return to “Prevention and Treatment”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests