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Disturbed sleep & AD

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
Welcomeaboard
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Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Welcomeaboard » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:50 am

I generally get anywhere from 9 to 12 hours sleep a day since my chemo. I sleep around 9 to 10 hours a nite and then take an afternoon siesta for the balance. I have found keeping the a/c cold in the day seems to help cause the siesta need. Today was a good nite as I have only slept 5 hours. But I will fall asleep soon for 3 or 4 more hours soon. I used to sleep 9 hours before chemo without the siestas. Has anyone tried calculating the proper temperature to induce sleep as I know stinking damn hot does not induce sleep for me.

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Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Juliegee » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:37 pm

G, I feel like your sleep study is tonight...or tomorrow night? Hard to convert time across the pond ;) I just wanted to wish you all the best. I'm crossing my fingers that any problems are brought to light so that you're able to get the rest you so badly need.

WA, good for you for getting that much sleep every day. I know it's important after all you've been through. I''m so happy you're better, my friend, and still here to teach me about copper...and so much more. :D

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Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Gilgamesh » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:21 am

Quick update on the sleep study:

Everything was pretty much normal (aside from the duration of my sleep...), but, it wasn't a full sleep study, with polysomnography, which is what I wanted! But I did learn that I definitely don't have restless leg syndrome, don't have abnormal numbers of or duration of cessations of breathing (though it happened a few times). My O2 saturation seemed a bit low, though.

Average Sp02: 92.6%
Lowest Sp02: 88.0%

I don't like those numbers, but the doc said it wasn't a big deal. I don't know.... I'm wondering whether I'm partly anemic. Like Julie (if I recall), I have mild macrocytic and hypochromic erythrocytes. That can cause low O2 saturation.

Nice visual:
http://www.medicine.mcgill.ca/physio/vlab/bloodlab/mcv-mchc_n.htm

Since I'm so tired and sleep badly (4.5 hours), they will be doing a full sleep study in a week or so. More waiting....

More thoughts and response on sleep (and other things!) later. Trying to stick to my "Go out/leave computer on Saturdays" rule!

GB

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KatieS
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Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby KatieS » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:27 am

G, my home sleep study was read as "normal", but once I read the full report, I discovered I had desats down to 82% that they attributed to a possible pulmonary defect. My lab study confirmed sleep apnea within two hours, multiple long events with a desat nadir of 65. The key point is you have to be comfortable to have a deep sleep, even if like my husband, you have to take a hypnotic, otherwise your data will be falsely normal.

Last year, the desat criteria was increased from 3 to 4%:
http://www.sleepscholar.com/aasm-4-desa ... hypopneas/
If your daytime oximeter is over 96, then would you meet this criteria. In your case, having multiple desats is likely leading to multiple wakings, hence the fatigue.

Although chronic hypoxia usually is associated with an increase RBC, not anemia.

With your full sleep study, plan to be as comfortable as possible (bring your favorite pillow, sleep mask light block out, ear plugs, remain cool with light clothing, etc). Being comfortable and having a good full six hours of deep sleep will yield a reliable study.

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Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Juliegee » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:45 am

G, I hate that you still don't have all of the info you need. I'm glad you're getting the FULL sleep study done. How lucky we are to have Kit, contributing such great information. I too would question those "normal" results. Given your 4/4 genotype, and more extreme need for sleep, what is normal/healthy for you may have to be a higher standard.

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Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Jamal » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:21 pm

Sleep for me is a very big deal. If I don't get enough, I can't think straight. When everything's going right, I'll get seven hours at night almost like clockwork. Things that can stop that from happening are drinking coffee (even decaff) after 1:00 in the afternoon because of waking up at night and having to pee, and also stress.

I almost always have to take a nap in the afternoon. The world becomes a blur to me, and then I have to sleep for about 1/2 an hour to clear things up. I'm pretty sure there's some kind of nuero-toxin cleaning going on while I sleep, although 1/2 hour might not be enough time according to some studies. I'm convinced that neuro-toxin cleanup during sleep is very important.

I definitely enter REM sleep often when I nap in the afternoon because sometimes I wake up in the middle and feel it happening. Afternoon sleep can be quite bizarre and even entertaining because a lot of times it's a series of mild, half-waking hallucinations. Luckily I have a job where I can close my office door and sleep for a while in the afternoon.

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Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Welcomeaboard » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:49 pm

Speaking of disturbed sleep, survive the tribe was in a Waorani tribe in the Amazon this week. The host said he needed to get some sleep as the Waorani wake up every couple hours and start singing for a couple hours or talking and once they start talking they don't stop for a couple hours. He said the pattern went on all nite. So , it appears as what some would think is abnormal is just normal for others.
Another, interesting thing is on August 29, 1911 Ishi the last
Uncontacted Indian tribesman of the Yahi tribe walked into civilization. So there are no known uncontacted Indian tribes in North America according to government sources, in what will be 103 years, in 27 days.

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Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Jamal » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:34 pm

Welcomeaboard, that's interesting about waking up every couple of hours. Some people claim that that's actually the norm historically:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmented_sleep

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16964783

I personally feel that lying in bed trying to get to sleep is worthless. I'll get up and do something unless I'm thinking about a problem I'm trying to solve. However, I have tried "segmented sleep" and found it to be very fatiguing.

I think that "segmented sleep" is common in the Middle East, where according to some studies APOE4 is uncommon. I wonder if there's a relationship between population sleeping habits and APOE4 prevalence.

Thought processes for me are very important when trying to get to sleep. Certain thoughts are conducive to sleep and others not. The old "counting sheep" idea.

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Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Gilgamesh » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:27 am

Kitano,

Thanks for the info about the new desat criteria! Extremely useful. I'm going to take that up with the doc when I next meet with her.

Kitano wrote:In your case, having multiple desats is likely leading to multiple wakings, hence the fatigue.

Possibly, but the 2-3 times in the last two years that I've managed to get more than six hours of sleep in a night were followed by precious days of non-fatigue. I suspect the main problem is that I'm simply not getting enough sleep. But we'll know more after the full study.

Jamal wrote:Sleep for me is a very big deal.

For me too! I really want this solved, not just for dementia prevention, but because not getting enough (good) sleep has profoundly affected my life.

I almost always have to take a nap in the afternoon. The world becomes a blur to me, and then I have to sleep for about 1/2 an hour to clear things up.

Same here, though, weirdly, I get tired a few hours after waking, and that's when I have my nap.

I'm pretty sure there's some kind of nuero-toxin cleaning going on while I sleep, although 1/2 hour might not be enough time according to some studies.

Do you happen to have references handy?

I definitely enter REM sleep often when I nap in the afternoon because sometimes I wake up in the middle and feel it happening.

Same here, but it's the deeper kind of sleep, not REM sleep, when the glymphatic (cleansing) system kicks in, no? (That would argue for 30 mins. not being long enough.)

GB

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Re: Disturbed sleep & AD

Postby Jamal » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:39 am

Gilgamesh, here's one reference concerning toxin cleaning and sleep. I'm not sure what phase of sleep it's hypothesized to happen.

http://www.nih.gov/news/health/oct2013/ninds-17.htm


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