Full Keto diet or not?

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
richhahn
New User
New User
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:28 am

Re: Full Keto diet or not?

Postby richhahn » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:51 am

A couple of things to take into account.

If you have a leaky gut, saturated fat can be a big problem. Lypopolysaccharides (LPS) can attach to saturated fat and leak into the blood stream resulting in increase in sdLDL and increased inflammation.

SNPs may be a problem. Several gene variations may cause a problem digesting and metabolizing fats. Dr Rhonda Patrick's app is a good way to find out if you have these snps.
https://www.foundmyfitness.com/

I failed at a lchf diet for about 15 years. I lost 50 lbs in the 1st few months and then nothing for the next 15 years. Eventually I traced it to snps causing a problem digesting and metabolizing fats, using Rhondas app. I have been eating mostly vegetarian for the last 2 years, but too late to reverse some of the damage caused by eating a high saturated fat diet.

I think keto with mono and polyunsaturated fats, not saturated fat, is probably fine for some people. For me, saturated fat is poison. This includes coconut oil!

User avatar
GLS18
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:21 am
Location: NYC area

Re: Full Keto diet or not?

Postby GLS18 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:52 am

richhahn wrote:A couple of things to take into account.

If you have a leaky gut, saturated fat can be a big problem. Lypopolysaccharides (LPS) can attach to saturated fat and leak into the blood stream resulting in increase in sdLDL and increased inflammation.

SNPs may be a problem. Several gene variations may cause a problem digesting and metabolizing fats. Dr Rhonda Patrick's app is a good way to find out if you have these snps.
https://www.foundmyfitness.com/

I failed at a lchf diet for about 15 years. I lost 50 lbs in the 1st few months and then nothing for the next 15 years. Eventually I traced it to snps causing a problem digesting and metabolizing fats, using Rhondas app. I have been eating mostly vegetarian for the last 2 years, but too late to reverse some of the damage caused by eating a high saturated fat diet.

I think keto with mono and polyunsaturated fats, not saturated fat, is probably fine for some people. For me, saturated fat is poison. This includes coconut oil!


Hello Richhahn & A Very Warm Welcome To Our Community!

Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts and background. It is helpful to understand the successes and challenges members are experiencing regarding the keto diet and modifications thereof, to enhance our collective learning.

As you will continue to discover within this thread and throughout the forums, each member is unique and how one proceeds with a keto diet for example, depends on a variety of factors. These factors include but are not limited to APOE status, biochemical profile, SNPs as you mentioned, lab markers, type/duration of exercise, stress levels and other conditions such as thyroid and adrenal dysfunction. While saturated fats such as coconut oil are not recommended for E4/E4 carriers, others can thrive with its incorporation into their diets. There is no one right approach and it is important to listen to our bodies and be mindful of how we are feeling emotionally and physically.

In addition to the incredible support, knowledge and insights you will find on our many forums, I hope you find the following resources empowering and enlightening. The Primer, beautifully compiled by physician and E4/E4 member Stavia, provides several lifestyle factors to optimize cognitive health, along with an comprehensive overview of the science behind the ApoE4 gene. To navigate the site more effectively and research topics most relevant to you, The How To Get The Most Out Of The ApoE4.Info Website, is a fantastic guide.

Please keep us posted as to how you are doing. We look forward to your continued contributions.

Wishing you well and again, a warm welcome:)
Gina
Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach
Reversing Cognitive Decline For Coaches Certification Candidate, Fall 2018
"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." - Mahatma Gandhi

User avatar
Sara
Support Team
Support Team
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:44 pm
Location: Between PA and FL
Contact:

Re: Full Keto diet or not?

Postby Sara » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:19 pm

Hi Richhahn, Greetings and welcome to the apoe4.info site! A very interesting post! We live and we learn. I found that eating cheese inhibited my ability to lose weight while following a ketogenic plan. Not to sophisticated, but there you have it. Would love to hear more about you and what brings you to this site. If you are interested and have the time please share your story on "Our Stories". Warm Regard
Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach, FMCHC, MBA
IFM / Bredesen Trained - Reversing Cognitive Decline - ReCODE 2017
FMCA / Bredesen Trained - Reversing Cognitive Decline For Coaches, 2018

CarrieS
Support Team
Support Team
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:21 pm

Re: Full Keto diet or not?

Postby CarrieS » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:42 am

Figuring out what works best for our own unique body can be frustrating but definitely is worth the time. I'm very carb sensitive and have found that the "good" carbs such as starchy vegetables, beans and grains elevate my blood glucose well beyond the limit that I'm aiming for. On the flip side though, I need to feed my good gut bugs and that is what they eat. Slowly but surely, I'm experimenting and learning what I can do to be able to get some of these foods into my system without over elevated glucose. Tracking my reaction to foods by measuring my blood glucose has been very insightful and has helped me understand how I should eat for me.
APOe4/4
Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach
National Board Certified Health & Wellness Coach
Certificate for Reversing Cognitive Decline for Coaches (FMCA)
Certified Fermentationist

mike
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 412
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:55 pm
Location: CA - Sonoma County

Re: Full Keto diet or not?

Postby mike » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:38 am

As a 20 year diabetic, I'm also very carb sensitive. I try to keep my carbs to around 30 gr / day. Like Carrie, any veg grown below ground is out, as are many grown above ground. Many folks here swear by their LCHF diets, but it doesn't pass the Common Sense test for me - I'm not afraid of fats, but don't believe that they should be the primary source of fuel in a low carb diet. For the past ~3 years I've been following a more low carb, high protein, moderate fat diet. Based on my 6'3" I try to eat at least 160 gr of protein per day. The amount of fat depends on what your goals are. My protein is almost ALL animal based. I try to get high quality meats, eggs and dairy. I don't drink milk because of the sugar, but make my own kefir and mix that with whey protein in the morning. I eat cheese and butter and cream, again looking for high quality, grass fed, etc. While on the diet, I have gone from 270 lbs to 205 lbs, and I'm stronger than I've been in decades. I have no gut issues. We've been eating like these foods for thousands of years. There have been too many changes to the "Ideal" diet over the years that have mostly turned out to be disastrous to the health of Americans and to where ever the Standard American Diet (MAD) has spread. I see research out there that says meat is bad, but I've also seen the opposite. For me, it works. Folks say you can't be in ketosis when eating that much protein, that it will turn to sugar. I've seen research that says its Demand driven, not Supply. While on this diet, I've done three extended water fasts of 13, 17 and 19 days. In the last two, my fasting blood glucose never went below 85, so even without protein, my brain was telling my body to create glucose. Each of us is different. You have to find what works for you.
Sonoma Mike
4/4

Online
Plumster
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:19 pm

Re: Full Keto diet or not?

Postby Plumster » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:12 pm

This may be of interest to some of you. This is Lee Crosby, R.D., who critiques the various kinds of keto diets out there and briefly touches on keto for AD at minute 29:21, arguing that it's the worst possible diet for AD prevention. She argues that unless one is already diagnosed with AD and pretty far along, a saturated fat keto diet would be harmful longterm. As several have mentioned in this thread, as long as you are healthy, the fasting part as a prevention strategy can be done without the need for a keto diet:

Go to minute 29:21 for her brief focus on AD and the keto diet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRuxe02JumI
e3/4 MTHFR C677T/A1298C COMT V158M++ COMT H62H++ VDR Taq ++ MTRR A66G ++

Robhypno
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:44 am

Re: Full Keto diet or not?

Postby Robhypno » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:17 am

This is where my confusion and motivation get affected.

We're aiming for mild/nutritional ketosis?

Keto, for me is the easiest and sustainable way to achieve ketosis

This conflicting information makes me question everything. I didn't know about E4 status until recently and decided to do something about it

My health was pretty good with a little excess body fat.

Dr Bredesen book was my motivation to make changes for long term health. Diet change in particular

Dr Grundy confused the whole thing with what I personally found contradictory diet advice and very restricted food plus all his supplements he sells - my personal opinion, of course.

Now this about keto diet?

Dr Bredesen appears to me the best broad approach.

This is not meant to be or sound like a rant but in some ways with all the reports and studies muddy the water and at times I feel I was doing fine before.

Is it just me?

DaleBru
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:03 am

Re: Full Keto diet or not?

Postby DaleBru » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:42 am

No, Robhypno, it is not just you. The waters are very muddy for many of us. There is a scientific and pseudoscientific decades-old war going on over low carb vs low fat, saturated fat harmful vs. helpful, and much more. I personally reject Gunderson's opinions, but others accept them. I think you'll find actual science has made a great deal of progress in the past five or ten years, but it is very hard to decide whom to trust. Based on my research today, I've gone keto and plan to stay there permanently. It feels great and it's working great.

I recommend the Low Carb Houston 2018 videos, and I'm eagerly awaiting the Low Carb Colorado 2019 conference next month. I trust information from Gary Taubes, Jason Fung, Eric Westman, Georgia Edes and David Diamond, to name a few. I ignore a lot of advice that seems to be selling stuff to attack symptoms as opposed to attacking root causes.

"I'm not a doctor, so my opinion has a much higher validity," I say jokingly.

Seriously, I don't think "the answer" is knowable yet. My plan: cut out sugar/fructose, get to my ideal weight and stay there, and ensure no insulin resistance, feeding my brain a healthy diet of ketones. I expect this to enable my amazing body, including my brain, to heal from the decades of dietary abuse I gave it.

The bad news is, I don't see a helpful pill or any other quick fix, nor do I expect to find one.

User avatar
slacker
Mod
Mod
Posts: 1654
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:20 pm
Location: Louisville KY

Re: Full Keto diet or not?

Postby slacker » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:54 am

I think that different people use the same term to describe different eating habits. One form of keto diet is indeed very high saturated fat. The Bredesen keto diet is high fat but minimizes saturated fats, especially for E4s. Gundry also focuses on low saturated fat; we have members who do very well with Gundry's approach. I'm sure there are all forms of keto diets in between. Advanced lipid tests (not just standard lipid panel) can help the individual determine possible negative effects of a high saturated fat diet. Not to mention that controversy exists over using LDL measurements alone to determine risk for vascular disease. One approach is not going to work for each individual. It's all a N=1 experiment. And individual results may not be know until some distant time in the future...
Slacker
E4/E4


Return to “Prevention and Treatment”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests