Keto Diet Ratios

[baysidewalk]

I'm reading on this forum that the general rule of thumb for eating on keto diet is 70-75% fat, 15-20% protein, and 5-10% carbs. I'm 4/4.

I'm trying to get into ketosis and had concluded that my protein intake (typically 30-50g daily) was not high enough (70-100 recommended for ketosis diet?) but then I read the above. How can a diet be 75% fat? I use EVOO almost exclusively, I put MCT (brain octane) in my morning coffee, and I try to minimize carbs (I do have 2 small dark chocolates daily). I eat a lot of mixed nuts to satisfy carb cravings, and I eat a lot of non-starch vegetables, avocado, etc. at each meal. I can't seem to get my ketones over point 4, after about a month of this. Is there a best time to measure ketones? I do fast 14 hours/day and am taking supplements as recommended by my (Bredesen) practitioner during and after cognoscopy.

So any suggestions? Is protein powder a good idea, with almond milk? Is vega protein better than whey protein?

Thanks for any help.

[TheresaB]

We typically don't need as much protein as we think we do.

Whey protein is highly insulinogenic, that is to say, it triggers a large release of insulin after consumption, which (excuse the pun) is whey bad.

When do you test ketones? They tend to be lowest first thing in the morning. The fact that your body is making ketones (assuming you're not just measuring the ketones produced after ingesting the brain octane in your coffee) is great! You've only been at this a month? It can take a long time for the body to adjust, and once used to making ketones, don't chase ketone numbers, the body eventually "gets it" with how much it needs to produce, and typically doesn't produce as much "excess" so readings go down, but that takes time, far longer than a month.

I go on an annual 7 day fast. My first was about a year after going ketogenic. I did it, but had some struggles, the subsequent fasts I didn't have any issues, I attribute the struggles with the first fast as the body not being fully keto adapted. Sure my body had been producing ketones for months, but I think it was still adjusting.

How can a diet be 75% fat?

It can be done. Remember the brain is 2/3rds fat.

[Robhypno]

70-75%fat as a measure in grams, is not as much as it sounds and varies slightly depending on the fat source.

[baysidewalk]

This is helping my motivation, so thank you for the responses. I'll keep adding fat (avocadoes soaked in EVOO sound yummy).

[khooks03]

Really? A major study I read says that APOE 4/4 should maintain a low-fat, low-carb diet. So, I wonder, what else is left except proteins? Help!

[NF52]

Really? A major study I read says that APOE 4/4 should maintain a low-fat, low-carb diet. So, I wonder, what else is left except proteins? Help!

Welcome, khooks03!

It's fair to say that diet recommendations are probably the most discussed topic on this forum! And for good reason--we just don't have rock-solid recommendations that have been shown not only to improve people's overall health, and their biomarkers on blood tests, but actual changes in longevity specific to ApoE 4 and to maintaining cognitive health. Lots of strong indicators, though! So sometimes what looks like a pitched disagreement is more high-level discussion around the edges, as in how much saturated fat is okay on a ketogenic diet, or whether carbs should come from vegetables and not pasta or, as one of our vegan users with a sense of humor posted, "Can I kill myself with spinach?"

If you can find the study that said people with ApoE 4/4 should eat low-fat/low-carb and post a link to it, I'm sure some of our users with years of experience nudging diets to achieve results will be glad to offer their take on it. I am going to just guess that it might have been recommending low saturated fat (butter, dairy, coconut oil) replaced by higher-than-typical-diets use of healthy fats (extra virgin olive oil, nuts, almond butter, avocados, salmon and other wild-caught fish). And that low-carbs meant few highly-processed carbs, replaced by a small to moderate amount of carbs from whole food sources (rainbow vegetables, berries) along with moderate protein.

Here's a link to two of our Wiki sections on the ketogenic diet and fats in the diet, which offers a range of guidance: Ketosis and Ketogenic Diet and Fats, Omega 3 & 6 and More
And here's a collection of recipes that will show just how diverse our members diets (and opinions) can be!
Recipes from our members

Enjoy browsing and searching topics. Check out the magnifying glass icon by your user name in the upper right of the screen for an easy search tool. We look forward to hearing what has (and hasn't) been working for you.

And as a 4/4, I confess to allowing myself to break the "rules" I set for myself, when it makes life a little less crazy!

[CoachJD]

Welcome khooks03! I totally understand your confusion so you are definitely not alone. I think NF52 was right that the conversation needs to be more comprehensive and address the kinds of fats and kinds of carbs, and I firmly believe that the best diet for you is one that considers your overall health and all of your risk factors. I believe the general guideline for 4/4 is anchored in heart health concerns, so that's something to consider. I hope your'll tell us more about you, and enjoy the information and inspiration in this community of caring, helpful and hopeful people. We're so glad you found us, and let us know what you discover as you peruse the site.

[khooks03]

Thanks for your help. I'll post something about myself at another location but will add this: I can't be slack! I'm 68!

[NF52]

Thanks for your help. I'll post something about myself at another location but will add this: I can't be slack! I'm 68!

Hi again,

I should have been clear about my own age: I'm almost 67, and 4/4. Like you (I read your wonderful "Welcome" post), I had a mother who developed what was probably mixed dementia (vascular and Alzheimer's) in her late 70's, following her 4 older sisters, who also developed it around the same age. Her mother died at age 45 of a stroke, so probably the ApoE 4 came with cardiac risks (plus having 11 kids in 14 years didn't help). My paternal grandmother, like yours, also had Alzheimer's, but not until the age of 87, when she almost died from salmonella. My father died of cardiac arrest only 7 months after a quadruple bypass at age 67.

And yet, with all that history and a mid-life lifestyle that was based on working 70 hour weeks with little sleep and less exercise, I have no coronary artery disease, a "cardiac age" of 39 on a calcium scan that I paid for, and low A1c and other biomarkers. And I'm in a clinical trial for a drug to prevent amyloid beta plaques in people with ApoE 4, which required that I passed cognitive, motor, and health tests 18 months ago. I don't say any of that to brag. Just wanted to emphasize that family history doesn't have to be your history. You only inherited 50% of your genes from each parent. Besides ApoE 4, you may have wonderful genes that are keeping you, at 68, with a fully-functioning brain that is both resilient and resistant to effects of ApoE 4.

I fully admit to not being at an ideal weight, something I have dealt with since the age of 5, when I remember my mother encouraging us to "clean our plates". But I am healthier in most ways than I have been for most of my life, and more active, and thus willing to bet than one choice will not doom me.

[khooks03]

Thank you so much for your wise observations. A good reminder that each situation and gene expression is unique---even though we share the APOE 4/4 variant. Our forum likely will be my best resource for a more balanced and informed viewpoint.