Importance of sleep interview by Rhonda Patrick

[TheresaB]

Yesterday I listened to a fascinating interview with Dr Matthew Walker by Dr Rhonda Patrick.

We all know sleep is very important for ApoE4s, and he discusses our gene and Alzheimer's quite a bit in this interview. Did you know ApoE4s are more susceptible to sleep apnea? I knew addressing sleep apnea was critical to good sleep, I didn't know we were more susceptible to it though. I learned so much from this interview. Dr Walker is also a very good interviewee, speaking in common language we can all understand. Personal opinion, this should be a must listen for everyone, even those who think they get enough sleep, but are they getting the right quality?

For those who don't like listening to interviews, this link also has a written summation of the interview and links for more info.

https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/matthew-walker

FYI, Matthew Walker, Ph.D., is a professor of neuroscience and psychology at the University of California, Berkeley, in the interview he said he started his research in the area of dementia. He is also author of Why We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams he is also co-author of this paper Sleep: A novel mechanistic pathway, biomarker, and treatment target in the pathology of Alzheimer's disease?

[SusanJ]

Interesting article.

Another method, kinesthetic stimulation during sleep—through slow, rhythmic bed rocking—has been shown to significantly increase low frequency NREM SWA in young adults, though no memory assessments were made.

I just read a recent study about the whole "rocking the bed" during sleep thing. Unfortunately did not save the URL, but it seems to be an area of research gaining some traction.

[Jafa]

Thankyou Theresa. I have read Mathew Walkers book but will also listen to this interview when time allows. For me it is a depressing subject. I have averaged 3 or 4 hours sleep a night for many months. I usually go to sleep okay but it is quite fragmented. I awaken after each sleep cycle, return to sleep until I don’t, between 3 and 4 am. I suspect I am in the ‘amyloid loop ‘ Every now and again I take 1/2 a zopiclone to get 6 hours sleep. Difficult to know what to do for the best. Those who have read the book will know
that studies have shown a low intake of zopiclone and the like, increase all cause mortality as well as cognitive issues. Then again so does Insomnia! Reduced life span.. ( Cancer, heart disease, infection) off the top of my sleep deprived head. I think studies have shown anaesthetised mousies glymphatic systems work okay so am I right in thinking that sleeping pills would at least allow nighttime brain cleansing.

[TheresaB]

so am I right in thinking that sleeping pills would at least allow nighttime brain cleansing.

In going to the transcript of the provided by Dr Patrick, near the very end of the interview is this:

But what we found is that sleeping pills, and I won't name any names but including the one that you described [Ambien], they are sedating the brain. You're not going into naturalistic sleep. If I look at the electrical signature of your sleep when you're on a sleeping pill versus natural sleep, it's not the same.

Secondly, what we found is that those sleeping pills can often come with a grogginess in the morning and some forgetfulness. Third, what we've found is that in animal models, and this is work that was done by Markus Frank, who's a wonderful friend and colleague, he was looking at how the brain rewires itself during sleep. And the brain does, particularly during the development.

And he has a model in animals, where, if you sort of put a patch on one of the eyes when the visual cortex is developing, the visual cortex shifts over to developing more wiring to the eye that remains open. And it's called the monocular deprivation paradigm of brain plasticity, and it's a very well worked out model of brain plasticity. If you give those animals some exposure once you patch the eye to the eye that remains, you drive learning and plasticity, and then you allow it to sleep, sleep will strengthen the synaptic connections that have been made during the day by about 100%.

Rhonda: Wow.

Matt: So sleep is almost as powerful as experience during the day. That's how sort of strong and powerful it is. But what he then did was a study where he dosed those animals with Ambien. Now it turns out that those animals slept even longer, if you look at the data, than the animals who weren't dosed on Ambien. And the prediction would be, surely, they would have as much if not more of that wonderful brain plasticity. The opposite was true. Ambien-induced sleep resulted in a 50% unwiring of the connections that have been made during day rather than potentiating them.

[Jafa]

Interesting Theresa thanks. So more than ‘plumbing’ to think about.

[NewRon]

Personal opinion, this should be a must listen for everyone, even those who think they get enough sleep, but are they getting the right quality?

I agree.

Previous thread on Dr Walker;

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5827&p=64166#p64166

[mike]

Here is a new article discussing how Sleep Apnea is tied to higher Tau levels. Preliminary Study, small sample, and cause and effect questions. Still, one more tie indicating that it is Tau that seems to be the central culprit somehow.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/meetingcov ... mail_TestA

[NewRon]

Can we perhaps arrange to have this video included in the Wiki on sleep, I wonder?

This scientist is such a gifted and passionate communicator. I think it's the first video I've seen where Dr Patrick barely gets to speak!

[TheresaB]

Can we perhaps arrange to have this video included in the Wiki on sleep, I wonder?

Great idea. I'll add the link to the current wiki.

After listening to this interview I was thinking maybe the sleep wiki should be my next project. Don't look for any immediate results, I've got some other things going on, but for now I'll add the link to the existing wiki.

By the way, anyone can work on the wiki, but there is a learning curve if it's never been done before, so I'll add the link.

[circular]

Thankyou Theresa. I have read Mathew Walkers book but will also listen to this interview when time allows. For me it is a depressing subject. I have averaged 3 or 4 hours sleep a night for many months. I usually go to sleep okay but it is quite fragmented. I awaken after each sleep cycle, return to sleep until I don’t, between 3 and 4 am. I suspect I am in the ‘amyloid loop ‘ Every now and again I take 1/2 a zopiclone to get 6 hours sleep. Difficult to know what to do for the best. Those who have read the book will know
that studies have shown a low intake of zopiclone and the like, increase all cause mortality as well as cognitive issues. Then again so does Insomnia! Reduced life span.. ( Cancer, heart disease, infection) off the top of my sleep deprived head. I think studies have shown anaesthetised mousies glymphatic systems work okay so am I right in thinking that sleeping pills would at least allow nighttime brain cleansing.

Java I’m so sorry for your sleep troubles. I’ve had my share too but am overall much better (although significant stressors can easily throw me off temporarily), so I just wish to offer some hope.

May I ask how early you’ve tried going to bed? One of my biggest breakthroughs was going to bed at 8. I don’t always achieve that early but most nights by nine. I find my Fitbit to be a big help. I see that getting to bed earlier allows more time in bed to get enough hours of actual sleep after subtracting awake times. I used to think on my best nights I was sleeping eight hours, but now I see the natural awakenings that make it more like seven and a half, and worse when I’m ‘sleeping’ five, six or seven hours for whatever reasons. When I get eight hours of *actual* sleep, which I’m much more likely to achieve by going to bed eightish, and including a lot of deep sleep, I literally wake up feeling a lot younger and ready to seize the day. It’s still a work in progress committing to 8 pm, but the old adage about bedtime by 10 and not later was not at all effective for me. My circadian rhythms were completely messed up for years, and marginal bed and rise time adjustments weren’t going to cut it.

I do some other things that have helped that I think you’ve read, but Fitbit is teaching me that for me early bedtime is crucial. Of course Walker also talks about staying with the suns cycles. I flew across the country today so I’m up now at 11:30 pm

YMMV