Fasting blood glucose

[tinamalone]

I am obviously a person with "dawn phenomenon" . My non-fasting blood glucose readings are fine. So is my HgA1C. I cannot get my fasting blood glucose below 100. I am tracking it and I am always about 5 to 10 points higher in the a.m. than when I went to bed 8 or 9 hours before - and I don't eat for at least 3 hours before bed. For example, last night I was 104 when I went to bed. I was 114 when waking this morning. I am trying everything - time restricted eating, berberine, bitter melon, gymnema, etc. I eat a ketogenic diet. No grains, no sugar, no cheating - ever. I don't drink alcohol. My doctor suggested Metformin but I would really like to avoid that. Is dawn phenomenon something I will have to just live with and accept? Anyone else have success with getting fasting blood glucose down when experiencing dawn phenomenon? Does anyone think that if your HgA1C is fine, the dawn phenomenon is not as detrimental or does the brain not getting a rest from glucose at night put me at greater risk of AD/dementia? I am 3/4. Thanks for any thoughts or assistance.

[mike]

I am obviously a person with "dawn phenomenon" . My non-fasting blood glucose readings are fine. So is my HgA1C. I cannot get my fasting blood glucose below 100. I am tracking it and I am always about 5 to 10 points higher in the a.m. than when I went to bed 8 or 9 hours before - and I don't eat for at least 3 hours before bed. For example, last night I was 104 when I went to bed. I was 114 when waking this morning. I am trying everything - time restricted eating, berberine, bitter melon, gymnema, etc. I eat a ketogenic diet. No grains, no sugar, no cheating - ever. I don't drink alcohol. My doctor suggested Metformin but I would really like to avoid that. Is dawn phenomenon something I will have to just live with and accept? Anyone else have success with getting fasting blood glucose down when experiencing dawn phenomenon? Does anyone think that if your HgA1C is fine, the dawn phenomenon is not as detrimental or does the brain not getting a rest from glucose at night put me at greater risk of AD/dementia? I am 3/4. Thanks for any thoughts or assistance.

What do you consider a fine A1c? I'm a long time diabetic and I also have a dawn effect. Have you tested your insulin resistance (homa-ir)? If your IR is low, then I would not worry about the 114. With your diet, you are likely minimizing glucose peaks, and that will likely be the critical thing going forward. To put things into perspective, I'm also trying to just use diet and my fasting glucose is ~240, so I would love a 114!

[tinamalone]

My HgA1C was 5.3 a few months ago. I would bet maybe lower now. Based on the estimate of HgA1C from the My Sugar app, my HgA1C would be 5.2 now. But that is an estimate. I get another in July. Interestingly, I was listening to a podcast by Dr. Rhonda Patrick, PhD (Fellow APOE4 "sister") and Dr. Matthew Walker, PhD from Harvard and UC Berkley and sleep specialist and researcher. The podcast was on sleep. Dr. Walker mentioned that melatonin inhibits pancreatic islet cells from making and distributing insulin and this can wreak havoc with blood glucose. I have been taking melatonin at night for sleep - even more than Bredesen recommends. Yikes! I am going to perform an n=1 experiment starting tonight and stop taking melatonin. I realize it may be rough for a night or two as my body probably isn't used to making it's own melatonin, but this situation can't be good. I will report back if this helps solve the fasting blood glucose issue in case others might be experiencing same. https://blog.humanos.me/research-reveal ... -diabetes/

[tinamalone]

Wanted to report back. It was not the melatonin that was elevating my fasting blood glucose. I even dropped ALL supplementation 3 hours before bed each night. Still suffered dawn phenomenon/elevated fasting blood glucose. Finally have found something that works for me - time restricted eating. I don't mean intermittent fasting. I was doing that already. Intermittent fasting allows black coffee, tea and zero calorie beverages during your fasting hours. With the time restricted eating, I am water-only during my fasting periods. Based on what I have learned, the black coffee, tea and zero calorie beverages actually start the independent circadian clock in the liver. This affects your hormones (insulin, leptin and gherlin). As soon as I implemented water only during the fasting period, my fasting blood glucose went down. I am now running in the mid 80s for my fasting glucose when I previously never went below 100. This may not work for everyone but it certainly worked for me. And quickly. You can get further information by 2 podcasts on Dr. Rhonda Patrick's (a fellow APOE4) FoundMyFitness website. One is with Dr. Satchin Panda and the other is with Dr. Ruth Patterson. Both are on Time Restricted Eating. Wonderful information and so helpful to me!

[KimC]

Thank you for sharing! That was a successful experiment and pearl you gained from Rhonda Patrick (who I also love) and what a fabulous outcome! I would not have guessed that TRE would have given you this result, ie., just going with water only, but super interesting. I also believe I have the dawn effect. Just wondering what your TRE window is, ie., 16-8 or other?

[tinamalone]

I am currently doing a 16 hour, water only, fasting period 5 days a week and 13 hours on the weekend. (Dr. Panda stated significant benefits are still seen, just not quite a much, by employing time restricted eating most days but not all days). After a few weeks, I plan to transition to the 14:10 period recommended by Bredesen. That will seem like a very "doable" way of life after implementation with 16:8!

[Hboroughs]

Thanks Tinamalone for this interesting thread. I also have dawn phenomenom. I am going to try your TRE and wonder about your exact timing. Do you start 3 hour before sleep and then count forward from there?

[Tincup]

I am obviously a person with "dawn phenomenon" . My non-fasting blood glucose readings are fine. So is my HgA1C. I cannot get my fasting blood glucose below 100. I am tracking it and I am always about 5 to 10 points higher in the a.m. than when I went to bed 8 or 9 hours before - and I don't eat for at least 3 hours before bed. For example, last night I was 104 when I went to bed. I was 114 when waking this morning. I am trying everything - time restricted eating, berberine, bitter melon, gymnema, etc. I eat a ketogenic diet. No grains, no sugar, no cheating - ever. I don't drink alcohol. My doctor suggested Metformin but I would really like to avoid that. Is dawn phenomenon something I will have to just live with and accept? Anyone else have success with getting fasting blood glucose down when experiencing dawn phenomenon? Does anyone think that if your HgA1C is fine, the dawn phenomenon is not as detrimental or does the brain not getting a rest from glucose at night put me at greater risk of AD/dementia? I am 3/4. Thanks for any thoughts or assistance.

This morning, a thread showed up in a group I'm in. It is a private FB group, Optimal Ketogenic Living (OKL), where the moderator advocates a large protein meal first thing in the morning, a modest lunch and that is it till the next morning. It is a good sized group with around 52,000 members. He has very specific macro targets that are keto. I don't eat the way he advocates, but many people who follow his advice have excellent results.

Member: I have my new monitor and used it for the first time yesterday. An hour after an OKL meal my blood glucose was 84 and keytones 0.3 (my husband's after eating the same meal was 74). This morning before and food or drink it was 103 which has confused me. Do you have any advice on healthy blood glucose levels and why they may be higher in the morning?

Moderator: in the morning that can be very normal due to a healthy appropriate cortisol spike - this is time for a main protein meal which will set the day up and over time improve all blood glucose regulation -- having such a meal turns off cortisol and allows a great fast at night with growth hormone signalling
All those readings you share are OK

Member: So quick update. Morning readings have been reducing each day since my last post. This mornings reading was 76! What have I changed? I have switched my eating window from afternoon/ evening (fits better with my lifestyle) to morning/afternoon as per your recommendations.

[tinamalone]

Thanks Tinamalone for this interesting thread. I also have dawn phenomenom. I am going to try your TRE and wonder about your exact timing. Do you start 3 hour before sleep and then count forward from there?

Hboroughs, my eating window is from 8 a.m to 4:00 p.m. This includes coffee, all beverages other than water, sugarless gum, etc. I get up early to work out. Waiting until 8 a.m. can be hard but getting used to it! It really helped me! Good luck and keep us posted if it works for you!

[tinamalone]

Tincup, Thanks for that information! That lines up with my experience. I changed and shortened my eating period to 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. and I consistently read in the 80s every morning. I was never below 100 before.