keto alternate

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
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SarahB
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keto alternate

Post by SarahB »

Seeing as I am doing quite poorly on keto, thanks to diarrhoea, I investigated GeneFood to see if they had an alternative recommendation. They ran my snps and came up with a vegan option supplemented with a bit of fish. Sort of Southwestern with tons of beans and cick peas etc which I tolerate poorly.

I was seriously hoping I could stay on keto, mostly because of migraines, second cause it's easy, third because of the recommendations for Alzheimer's. Also getting my husband on board with vegan is a non-starter. But the GI issues are wearing me down. Has anybody here tried alternative diets to keto to address their APOE?
Sgl9x
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Re: keto alternate

Post by Sgl9x »

I tried a vegan diet but couldn't stay on it longer than a month. Then I tried a vegetarian diet for 2 1/2 years and it gave me pre-diabetes. Keto works pretty good for me but it does give me sporadic brain fog.
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Gigi
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Re: keto alternate

Post by Gigi »

I have trouble with keto too-too much fat seems to stress my digestion and liver/gall bladder. I’ve been aiming to do lots of vegetables, olive oil and fish, chicken and eggs, low sugar fruit and some grains.
I think that the stressed digestion impacts my ability to utilize the supplements- so I am experimenting.

Love to find a good workable plan. But you are not alone.
SarahB
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Re: keto alternate

Post by SarahB »

Thanks, the idea of bean based Vegan has me very depressed. The example recipes read like a prison sentence. Especially since I don't have a weight problem, diabetes or high cholesterol.
swampf0etus
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Re: keto alternate

Post by swampf0etus »

What do you mean by ‘tolerated poorly’? Do they give you gas, bloating or stomach cramps?

If gas is the problem, there are several things you can do to combat bean gas. Slowly integrating them into your diet, rather than eating lots of them, is one way, as this is thought to help build up the correct gut bacteria to deal with them. Different soaking techniques of beans can also help reduce gas. I’ve also heard that soaking with certain live cultures can breakdown the natural sugars that feed your gut bacteria and this prevents gas, but I’ve not tried this as they no longer give me problems.

If you get things like stomach cramps, then you may actually have a problem with them, or at least some kinds. My wife can eat beans and chickpeas, but she gets horrible cramps with lentils and avoids them like the plague.

Since I dropped keto over three years ago, after getting health problems and fact checking/debunking all of keto’s health claims, I changed to a high carb, low fat (<10% cals from fat), plant based (not completely vegan) diet that includes lots of beans, legumes and pulses. Probably more what you’d call a blue zone diet. Although there was a bit of a transformation period, I’ve never looked back. At my latest private health check last month, the doctor was amazed by all my health metrics and told me to keep on doing what I’m doing. Everything was better than when I was doing Keto; HbA1c is lower (perfect 5!), triglycerides are lower, LDL is super low (yes, that is a good thing!), body fat lower, visceral fat lower. My HDL had decreased, but only slightly, and my Trig/HDL and LDL/HDL ratios are still excellent, so who cares about that. So much for carbs causing obesity and diabetes!

It's best to just start out with a few nice recipes and build up a few. I recommend getting a pressure cooker, as they’re amazing for beans/lentils. It enables you to cook for real cheap, as dried beans cost pennies compared to tinned. And dried beans can be cooked in a pressure cooker in minutes and don’t need to be soaked overnight. It’s the best kitchen gadget I’ve bought.

Don’t get depressed about it, just take it in smalls steps and transition at a pace that suits you. Experiment and find tasty recipes. There’s lots out there.

Good luck.
SarahB
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Re: keto alternate

Post by SarahB »

Thanks Swamp for the encouragement, but I can't. I've thought about my situation and feel much clearer today.

High carb beans and rice is a nonoption. My husband does the food prep, and pressure cooking beans is out of his range. He also has a bunch of negative psychological associations with rice and beans, high carb diets and veganism. Me too, truthfully. I think: fat, depressed, diabetic, farting and still hungry. Also, the worst year of our life we spent in New Mexico. So it's all just so incredibly unappealing.

Also, beans and lentils hurt my guts and are unpalatable. I'm not designed to digest legumes. I seem unable to digest high fat too and drew the line at the idea of taking an ox bile pill at every meal just to get by. Didn't work anyway. Feel the same about legumes. Just seems like working against nature to me.

Also, on the gluten free Mediterranean diet I was on before the ketone experiment, I had normal body weight, low LDL, high HDL, no evidence at all of diabetes or pre-diabetes and low blood pressure. So I lack adequate incentive to subject myself to beans and disrupt my family.

I went on the keto to try to treat migraines. Thought it would be so easy - little did I know. Real scientific evidence backs the migraine idea, including a clinical trial. I was hoping keto would also address the Alzheimer's risk; however I agree that the science is lacking. Also, truth be told, my grandfather and mother minded their lipids and still got Alzheimer's anyway.

Since ketone is a fail, can't live running to the toilet long term and don't feel that great, my plan is to visit a nutritionist, finish the keto experiment in a month with a panel of labs (just curious what happened), then return to my previous diet, now also avoiding sugar. I'm going to trial a riboflavin/Coenzyme Q protocol for the migraines. If that fails, then tegretol.

What I've learned from this experience is that the data's inadequate to predict human metabolism from raw genetic data at this time. Genetically, I have terrible lipid metabolism, but I don't by lab work. Supposedly I'm lactose intolerant, but I'm not at all. The only associations that seemed reflected in reality were the metylation genes. As predicted, I have a mild homocysteine elevation that I can treat with vitamins, but treating it might not help lower my cardiovascular risk. In addition, figuring out the perfect diet is way more complicated than metabolism. You also need to consider what you'll be able to tolerate and what your family will tolerate. I also noticed on Chronometer that I get a boatload of nutrients from my diet and will need to question the wisdom of supplements. So overall, a worthwhile experience.
Apricot333
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Re: keto alternate

Post by Apricot333 »

I did a lot of research on preventing dementia since I am the primary caregiver for my 99 year old mother who has had dementia for over 20 years. The most convincing evidence of prevention was for a vegan diet. See the China study and the Seventh Day Adventists that don’t develop dementia, as two examples. Of course there is more required- quality sleep, exercise, socialization, low stress and continuing to learn things. I started the diet for myself a year ago and put my mom on it shortly after because of the positive effect it had on me. I just wanted to slow my mom’s decline, but to my surprise she had slowly been regaining capabilities she has lost! Not only that, her kidney function improved, no more UTIs, and her blood sugar levels are all normal! I know a vegan diet can be intimidating but we don’t eat a lot of beans. We get protein from tofu every so often, yes, but we also eat seitan (wheat protein) and drink plant based protein powder drinks I buy from Costco. I’ve learned to make vegan cheeses and vegan eggs, and I also buy vegan butter and almond milk. I basically have vegan versions of everything I used to love making.
mike
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Re: keto alternate

Post by mike »

When it comes to diet, everyone seems to be different. What works for one does not for an other. I believe the most important part of keto is low carbs. I myself eat about 5% carbs and 30% protein and 65% fat calorie wise. Unlike many here i get my protein almost 100% animal. I start my day with home made milk based kefir to get good bacteria, along with 50 gr of whey protein. Later I have 4 eggs. Much of my fat is plant based, but I also eat European butter. I started this diet after almost doing twice from a brain clot and then a bad reaction to a new diabetes drug that put me in the ICU for ten days. In the last three years, I've lost 80 pounds of fat, and added back 20 pounds of muscle. I don't have intestinal issues anymore.
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floramaria
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Re: keto alternate

Post by floramaria »

Apricot333 wrote:I did a lot of research on preventing dementia since I am the primary caregiver for my 99 year old mother who has had dementia for over 20 years. The most convincing evidence of prevention was for a vegan diet. See the China study and the Seventh Day Adventists that don’t develop dementia, as two examples. Of course there is more required- quality sleep, exercise, socialization, low stress and continuing to learn things. I started the diet for myself a year ago and put my mom on it shortly after because of the positive effect it had on me. I just wanted to slow my mom’s decline, but to my surprise she had slowly been regaining capabilities she has lost! Not only that, her kidney function improved, no more UTIs, and her blood sugar levels are all normal! I know a vegan diet can be intimidating but we don’t eat a lot of beans. We get protein from tofu every so often, yes, but we also eat seitan (wheat protein) and drink plant based protein powder drinks I buy from Costco. I’ve learned to make vegan cheeses and vegan eggs, and I also buy vegan butter and almond milk. I basically have vegan versions of everything I used to love making.
Welcome, Apricot333!

Thank you for sharing the exciting news about your mom's regaining capabilities she had lost. And kudos to you for doing the research and helping your mom to implement a program that has worked well for her as well as for you. That is really impressive at age 99!
Your story is another example of how there is no absolute "right diet" for everyone; I am so happy for you that you have found what works for you and for your mom.

Since you became a member in April, you may have already familiarized yourself with some of the important features of the website. Just in case you haven't encountered them yet, I will point out a few:
The Primer is written by a physician member and gives a comprehensive overview of the risks associated with the ApoE4 allele, and also prioritized steps for reducing those risks.
You didn't mention your mom's ApoE4 status. Do you know it?
There is a search function that you can access using the magnifying glass to the left of your user name. That allows you to see all previous posts by community members on any topic you might want to research.
There is a Wiki that contains consolidated information on several topics, including a section on
How-To Get the Most out of the ApoE4.info website which has useful tips on how to follow a thread, and how to reply to a post so that the person you are replying to will be notified.
If you feel like sharing more about yourself and your journey as your mom's caregiver, Our Stories is a good place for that.
You will find a warm, supportive, and well-informed community here, with open ears and open minds to learn from each other. What we learn from each others' experiences helps makes our community stronger, so I hope that you will continue to post.
There is also a recipe section of the WiKi where your sharing some of the expertise you have gained in making vegan cheeses and vegan eggs as well as other vegan delights could be a valuable addition and extremely helpful for some others who are trying to maintain or just experiment with a vegan diet.
Sending best wishes,
floramaria
Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach
IFM/ Bredesen Training in Reversing Cognitive Decline (March 2017)
ReCODE 2.0 Health Coach with Apollo Health
Apricot333
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Re: keto alternate

Post by Apricot333 »

floramaria wrote:
Apricot333 wrote:I did a lot of research on preventing dementia since I am the primary caregiver for my 99 year old mother who has had dementia for over 20 years. The most convincing evidence of prevention was for a vegan diet. See the China study and the Seventh Day Adventists that don’t develop dementia, as two examples. Of course there is more required- quality sleep, exercise, socialization, low stress and continuing to learn things. I started the diet for myself a year ago and put my mom on it shortly after because of the positive effect it had on me. I just wanted to slow my mom’s decline, but to my surprise she had slowly been regaining capabilities she has lost! Not only that, her kidney function improved, no more UTIs, and her blood sugar levels are all normal! I know a vegan diet can be intimidating but we don’t eat a lot of beans. We get protein from tofu every so often, yes, but we also eat seitan (wheat protein) and drink plant based protein powder drinks I buy from Costco. I’ve learned to make vegan cheeses and vegan eggs, and I also buy vegan butter and almond milk. I basically have vegan versions of everything I used to love making.
Welcome, Apricot333!

Thank you for sharing the exciting news about your mom's regaining capabilities she had lost. And kudos to you for doing the research and helping your mom to implement a program that has worked well for her as well as for you. That is really impressive at age 99!
Your story is another example of how there is no absolute "right diet" for everyone; I am so happy for you that you have found what works for you and for your mom.

Since you became a member in April, you may have already familiarized yourself with some of the important features of the website. Just in case you haven't encountered them yet, I will point out a few:
The Primer is written by a physician member and gives a comprehensive overview of the risks associated with the ApoE4 allele, and also prioritized steps for reducing those risks.
You didn't mention your mom's ApoE4 status. Do you know it?
There is a search function that you can access using the magnifying glass to the left of your user name. That allows you to see all previous posts by community members on any topic you might want to research.
There is a Wiki that contains consolidated information on several topics, including a section on
How-To Get the Most out of the ApoE4.info website which has useful tips on how to follow a thread, and how to reply to a post so that the person you are replying to will be notified.
If you feel like sharing more about yourself and your journey as your mom's caregiver, Our Stories is a good place for that.
You will find a warm, supportive, and well-informed community here, with open ears and open minds to learn from each other. What we learn from each others' experiences helps makes our community stronger, so I hope that you will continue to post.
There is also a recipe section of the WiKi where your sharing some of the expertise you have gained in making vegan cheeses and vegan eggs as well as other vegan delights could be a valuable addition and extremely helpful for some others who are trying to maintain or just experiment with a vegan diet.
Sending best wishes,
floramaria
Thank you for all the help. Both my mom and I are 3/4. I will definitely check out the recipe section as well.


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