Keto, blood surgar, cholesterol, protein--how to balance?

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floramaria
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Re: Keto, blood surgar, cholesterol, protein--how to balance?

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carriex3 wrote:
Where I am struggling is how to balance everything

I'm willing to do what it takes to put the odds in my favor, both in terms of AD and heart disease. ...
Hi carriex3,
Being new to the site, you may not know yet that most everyone here is struggling or has struggled with how to balance everything. It is natural, when confronted with a lot of new information and suggestions for beneficial changes to find it challenging. You asked for tips, so mine would be to pace yourself and take the changes slowly. One balance I would recommend is balancing "what I need to do" with "where I am already doing great".
You already have several very positive things going for you, with your healthy BMI and your daily exercise. Your attitude of being willing to do what it takes to put the odds in your favor will empower you to make the changes you desire. You are experiementing with intermittent fasting and Keto, and have engaged a nutritionist to help you meet your goals.
As someone who has been focusing on sleep as the area where I am directing my attentions towards improving my own longterm "odds", I am in awe of 8 hours! Sleeping 8 hours is also a tremendous boon. I've just read the book "Why We Sleep" by Matthew Walker, and listened to him being interviewed in several webinars, and am more convinced than ever that sleep is a powerful healing tool for our brains. You've got that one working for you!

There is a section in the WiKi of recipes contributed my members. That might give give you some ideas on for meals. Good luck with your tempeh!
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Re: Keto, blood surgar, cholesterol, protein--how to balance?

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Julie G wrote:Dr. Bredesen recommends between 0.8-1.0 grams (g) per kilogram (kg) of lean body mass (LBM) daily.
Examine.com has continued to improve their How much protein do you need per day? article. Today's update relies on evidence from 109 papers including 17 from 2018 and 2019. The article text refers to each of these papers, and at the end of the article each paper appears along with links back into each referencing text location. This bidirectional referencing makes it easy to understand the relationship between evidence and interpretation.

As a starting point, I particularly recommend the section critiquing the 0.8 g/kg US RDA that continues to be a default recommendation from many clinicians. Two key flaws - single rather than two-phase linear regression data analysis, and use of the nitrogen balance method rather than the indicator amino acid oxidation technique for data acquisition - explain why 0.8 g/kg is far too low for optimum population health.

Certainly individuals can survive and even thrive on less. The first time I mentioned this astoundingly thorough analysis, Tincup followed up with his own experience doing well on much less. Notwithstanding, the evidence suggests that a much higher protein intake among our overall human population would reduce sarcopenia and improve skeletal muscular function.
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Re: Keto, blood surgar, cholesterol, protein--how to balance?

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MarcR wrote:Two key flaws - single rather than two-phase linear regression data analysis, and use of the nitrogen balance method rather than the indicator amino acid oxidation technique for data acquisition - explain why 0.8 g/kg is far too low for optimum population health.
Thanks for mentioning the nitrogen balance method. It reminded me of the discussions of Gabriel Lyon's work found here.
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Re: Keto, blood surgar, cholesterol, protein--how to balance?

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Thanks for reminding me of Lyon's work, circular. Her ideas offer a compelling theoretical framework for the overwhelming experimental evidence that we need far more than the US RDA for optimal health.

Have those taking the opposite position - Rosedale, Gundry, presumably others - been able to go beyond biochemistry, mouse studies, and acausal Blue Zone observations to show superior skeletal muscular health in protein-restricted humans?
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Re: Keto, blood surgar, cholesterol, protein--how to balance?

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MarcR wrote:
Julie G wrote:Dr. Bredesen recommends between 0.8-1.0 grams (g) per kilogram (kg) of lean body mass (LBM) daily.
Examine.com has continued to improve their How much protein do you need per day? article. Today's update relies on evidence from 109 papers including 17 from 2018 and 2019.
I keep meaning to mention this; a few years ago Examine.com was the subject of a furious reaction in other parts of the Anglophone world, to an article that was written by one of its founders.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... s-fish-oil

And this response:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blo ... s-evidence
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Re: Keto, blood surgar, cholesterol, protein--how to balance?

Post by Julie G »

Notwithstanding, the evidence suggests that a much higher protein intake among our overall human population would reduce sarcopenia and improve skeletal muscular function.
Perhaps, but Dr. Bredesen would argue the majority of that evidence is based upon a very unhealthy Western population. So many in the US have impaired GI function with other chronic viral insults and infections that worsen as we age. Many are unaware and just use PPIs, analgesics, laxatives, etc. to compensate. Aging is an accumulation of damage and ultimately higher levels of protein are necessary to overcome that damage. In fact, he does recommend higher amounts for people who are unwell, older, or underweight with the goal of remediating underlying health issue to ultimately reduce protein. He also recommends higher amounts for people who are very physically active.

He definitely falls into the low protein camp, along with other longevity folks like Longo and Gundry. He’s trying to harness the anti-aging benefits of lower (animal) protein, as evidenced by the Blue Zones, while concurrently preventing sarcopenia with recommendations for strength training as well as working lots of natural weight bearing movement (household chores, walking, etc,) into our daily routines.

I appreciate your perspective, Marc and passed along both your post and link to Dr. Bredesen.
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Re: Keto, blood surgar, cholesterol, protein--how to balance?

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Only fair to share Examine.com's response:

Scientific Research and our Article in the Guardian

In my experience, the organization is true to its mission:

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Re: Keto, blood surgar, cholesterol, protein--how to balance?

Post by NewRon »

MarcR,

Absolutely. I just wanted to point out the controversy so that people would be aware of the issues and then make their own mind up.

I think they’ve made quite a few changes after the articles were published and indeed I noticed that their response article was updated recently, in 2018.

I use the site myself, from time to time.
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Re: Keto, blood surgar, cholesterol, protein--how to balance?

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Julie G wrote:Perhaps, but Dr. Bredesen would argue the majority of that evidence is based upon a very unhealthy Western population.
I find this type of argument persuasive in the context of observational studies, which don't establish causation. Fortunately, on this topic of protein consumption we can do better as we have hard evidence in the form of controlled trials. For example:

The effects of dietary protein intake on appendicular lean mass and muscle function in elderly men: a 10-wk randomized controlled trial
Conclusions: Consumption of a diet providing 2RDA for protein compared with the current guidelines was found to have beneficial effects on lean body mass and leg power in elderly men. These effects were not explained by differences in energy balance.
Effects of Whey Protein Supplementation Pre- or Post-Resistance Training on Muscle Mass, Muscular Strength, and Functional Capacity in Pre-Conditioned Older Women: A Randomized Clinical Trial
Whey protein supplementation was effective in promoting increases in SMM, muscular strength, and functional capacity in pre-conditioned older women, regardless of supplementation timing.
The 109 references in the article leave the US RDA in tatters - measurement error, analysis error, inadequate protection against sarcopenia, relationship between sarcopenia and frailty, and many trials showing that more protein maintains lean body mass.
Julie G wrote:He’s trying to harness the anti-aging benefits of lower (animal) protein, as evidenced by the Blue Zones
I think the Blue Zone argument is weak - just anecdotes and observations with no evidence showing causation. While I'm not sold generally on the miraculous benefits of consuming raw cow's milk, I do find Sally Fallon's rebuttals of Buettner's vegetarian longevity narrative to be fact-filled and persuasive:

Sardinia
Okinawa
Costa Rica
Ikaria, Greece
Loma Linda

In my opinion, it is possible for humans to thrive while restricting the single most nutritious macronutrient available to us (animal protein) by simultaneously engaging in other profoundly beneficial practices like fasting, resistance training, and avoidance of processed food; however, I think they do so in spite of rather than because of the animal protein restriction.
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Re: Keto, blood surgar, cholesterol, protein--how to balance?

Post by circular »

Thanks MarcR, this other side really needs more exposure. We often discuss how the RDA for many nutrients was set to prevent a serious deficiency-related condition rather than for optimal intake. I gather the same is true for the nitrogen balance approach to determining protein needs.

On shellfish protein, BeingPatient has raised a potential issue I hadn’t considered when eating shellfish. As bottom feeders, in some areas they are accumulating toxins stemming from algae blooms that are being *associated with* Alzheimer’s plaques in dolphins (more studies needed). I haven’t had time to figure out what source regions are safest so I can just not have to worry about it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.beingp ... umans/amp/
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
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