Sleep

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
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KatieS
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Re: Sleep

Postby KatieS » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:12 pm

Sealy has posted the ResMed devise I have (it's the APAP "AirSense for Her" with the flower design).

NF52
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Re: Sleep

Postby NF52 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:02 pm

KatieS wrote:Sealy has posted the ResMed devise I have (it's the APAP "AirSense for Her" with the flower design).


TheBrain wrote:Since yesterday, I’ve tried multiple times to post in the recent thread titled “Sleep.” I keep getting this error message:

403
Forbidden
Access to this resource on the server is denied!

I’ve logged out and logged back in. Didn’t help. I quit and restarted my Safari browser. Didn’t help. I’ve tried posting on both my iPad and iMac.
Any ideas?
Here's my idea, "Brain" after I threw out "kick the computer" and "swear with enthusiasm" as not likely to help :roll:
I'm quoting you on the thread, which should kick it back to you and allow you to join back in. Let me know if it works!! (if not, the first two ideas are still there for the taking)
4/4 and still an optimist!

BGTex
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Re: Sleep

Postby BGTex » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:55 pm

xactly wrote:
johnseed wrote:Unhappily, Dr Walker doesn't have many ideas about hacking the stages of sleep. He does suggest that a hot bath just before bed increases the amount of deep sleep by 10 or 15% but I haven't noticed any impact as yet.

So is there any way, I wonder, that I can intervene to increase the likelihood of lots of deep sleep?

I just finished reading Matthew Walker's book, after listening to his interviews with Peter Attia, Joe Rogan and Rhonda Patrick. I also bought an Oura ring a couple of months ago, and I'm using it for sleep tracking.

I am a lark, so I've figured out my optimal bedtime is 9 p.m., and I usually get out of bed between 5 and 6 a.m. My average total sleep since I started tracking on May 22 is 8:17.

My deep sleep averages 59 minutes a night over the same time period. Walker says that deep NREM sleep starts to decline in your twenties and thirties, and that you've lost 60 - 70% of it by the end of your forties. By the time you reach 70, you will have lost 80 to 90% of the deep NREM sleep you had in youth. (See page 96 in the book for this discussion.)

My goal is not to reach 2 hours (since I'm 67 years old), but to see just how high I can push up my average. I would also like to keep it as high as possible for as long as possible.

I have a sleep hygiene routine similar to yours, except I don't use blue-blockers. At sundown, I turn off all lights in the house that are not necessary and dim the few that remain. I stop using screens at least one hour before bedtime, and I spend the last hour sitting in a chair reading a traditional book with a book light that is aimed at the page (and not my eyes). When I go to bed, I wear a sleep mask to block out all light and Mack's wax earplugs to dampen sound.

I agree that Matt Walker doesn't provide as much guidance on how to get a good night's sleep as I would like, but here are a couple of tidbits I picked up on the AMA episode he recently did with Peter Attia:
  • He recommends melatonin in two situations: 1) overcoming jet lag; and 2) for older adults, since we produce less melatonin as we age.
  • When he recommends setting the room temperature at 65 degrees F, that's assuming the sleeper is wearing pajamas and using the "usual bed linens" (whatever that means). If you sleep in the buff and use only a top sheet (or nothing at all), you can probably sleep well with a somewhat higher temperature.

I've am doing n=1 experiments to improve my sleep. I don't have problems falling asleep since I changed my nightly routine. One of my goals is to improve continuity; if I do wake in the early morning hours, I use mindfulness to shut off the ruminations (some of my supplements have helped improve continuity). Second goal is to push the deep sleep number as high as I can.

Here's my current bedtime supplement stack: 1 mg tablet of Natrol Time Release Melatonin; 1 capsule of Jarrow GABA Soothe (which contains PharmaGABA, L-Theanine and Ashwagandha); 3 capsules of Life Extension Neuromag (magnesium L-threonate); and 3 g of Now Glycine powder dissolved in water. I'm getting ready to trial 1 g of taurine along with l-tryptophan to see if that improves either deep sleep or sleep continuity.

You also mentioned DHA. Last week, I started following Rhonda Patrick's recommendation on DHA. I am consuming 1 ounce of salmon roe with 1/2 avocado a day because that's the easiest was to get a large dose of DHA in phospholipid form. I was expecting the salmon roe to taste so bad that I was pleasantly surprised when I tried it.

I haven’t paid up to become a subscriber to The Drive, but this particular AMA made me think twice.

In particular, I am interested in solving my lone sleep issue: waking up at around 3 a.m. for about an hour and then getting right back to sleep. Otherwise, I think I am good on the rest of it.

circular
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Re: Sleep

Postby circular » Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:05 pm

This is a really interesting episode of the Broken Brain Podcast with sleep medicine dentist Dr. Mark Burhenne.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Sleep

Postby marymac » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:40 pm

Have you read the research on pink noise and deep sleep? I've noticed an increase in the amount of deep sleep I've gotten since sleeping with a pink noise app.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 120531.htm

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TheBrain
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Re: Sleep

Postby TheBrain » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:50 pm

What is the mechanism by which the Oura ring tracks deep sleep?

I use my Apple Watch and the Autosleep app to track my sleep. It tracks when you fall asleep and awaken, total time asleep, deep sleep, and sleep quality. According to AutoSleep, if your heart rate is at least 10% lower than your average heart rate during the day time, it indicates you are in deep sleep. It uses an algorithm to determine sleep quality, and I have no idea what the details are there.

One thing is that is you’re an athlete, you need to change one setting to indicate that. Athletes have a larger drop in heart rate during sleep, so their deep sleep can be overestimated if they don’t have the correct setting.

I’m 59. Per Autosleep, I usually get a surprising number of hours of deep sleep. For example, last night, I slept 8 hours and 5 minutes and had 4 1/2 hours of deep sleep. And I am not an athlete. However, I take sleep medication, so I figure that probably slows down my heart rate. But when I don’t get enough deep sleep despite getting enough sleep hours-wise, I can feel it and it correlates with what Autosleep says.

The other night, I was over at a friend’s house for the evening. Although we spent most of our time outside on her deck, we did spend some time inside. I didn’t have my blue blockers on, and she has a water-damaged home that won’t be fully addressed until the fall. Ideally, I wouldn’t spend any time in a water-damaged building because I’m mold sensitive. For one or both reasons, I got enough sleep, but I felt overstimulated, which brings on a higher heart rate, and got only 15 minutes of deep sleep. I felt lousy that day.

It seems like it would be best for me not to socialize in the evening because this type of sleep disturbance has become a pattern. Or else I just need to be a goofball and wear my blue blockers no matter what. And there are many water-damaged buildings where I live. I don’t know how much that factors in, but mold toxicity can cause sleep issues and sympathetic activation. Emotional upset does the same thing to my sleep, despite my sleep meds.
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!

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Re: Sleep

Postby Lucy5 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:37 am

marymac wrote: Have you read the research on pink noise and deep sleep? I've noticed an increase in the amount of deep sleep I've gotten since sleeping with a pink noise app.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 120531.htm

Welcome to the group marymac, and thank you for the posting this study link. While the study group was quite small with just 9 participants, they do have some pretty interesting observations on the possible benefits of pink noise. We all know how important sleep is, so if you've found you're getting a better night's rest, that's great to hear! I'll be keeping an eye out for further studies on this one.

If you haven't had a chance as yet, we like to recommend new members browse through our site Primer written by a member practicing physician. It's a great way to become familiar with our community and learn more about this ApoE4 gene most of us share. The Primer discusses a variety of lifestyle strategies many of us employ to mitigate it's negative impacts on health, including an excellent section on sleep. Our Wiki offers more in-depth conversations on topics of particular interest to our members and so, of course, sleep quality/optimization is discussed here as well.

I'd also like to mention we've put together a How-To-Guide with some helpful tips on navigating our site more easily (such as clicking on the magnifying glass along the upper right of this page to search the forums for topics of interest to you).

marymac, if at some point you'd like to share more about yourself, the Our Stories forum is a good place to post. In the meantime, please don't hesitate to continue to share and ask questions of our community at any time!
warmly, Lucy

xactly
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Re: Sleep

Postby xactly » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:59 pm

TheBrain wrote:What is the mechanism by which the Oura ring tracks deep sleep?

Oura says it analyzes sleep by measuring the dynamics of heart rate, pulse strength, body temperature and movement. They use proprietary algorithms combine these measurements into a detailed picture of sleep patterns.

Because the ring sits firmly on your finger and is in close contact with your skin, it's able to provide accurate pulse and temperature data. During sleep, the ring measures blood pulse volume from the arteries on the palm side of the finger with infrared LEDs. Oura uses actigraphy to estimate sleep patterns and sleep-wake cycle.

All of the personal sleep trackers in the market are only about 50 - 60% accurate at this time. They are probably quite good at measuring total sleep but less accurate in measuring deep sleep. So it's probably good not to accept the numbers you get from a tracker as gospel, but rather to use them as relative references over time.

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Re: Sleep

Postby TheBrain » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:46 am

Thanks, xactly. The mechanism for Oura sleep tracking is certainly more involved than with the Apple Watch and Autosleep. But an accuracy of only 50-60% for personal sleep trackers makes me not want to invest in any other products at this time. My Apple Watch does a lot of things for me besides sleep tracking, and I can tell that its sleeping tracking has improved over time. Though I don’t take it as gospel, its findings usually correlate with how I feel that day.
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!

circular
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Re: Sleep

Postby circular » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:04 am

TheBrain wrote:Though I don’t take it as gospel, its findings usually correlate with how I feel that day.

Me too, using the Fitbit, though I’d also say it’s deep sleep reporting seems to correlate with how I feel. It’s been a nice tool to show me what the benefits of deep sleep feel like rather than just read like on the page. This has really motivated me to work on maximizing deep sleep. Interestingly, for me it plummets each time I try to use mouth taping, although I would still like to confirm that with something more accurate.

Matthew Walker says we’re about four years from an accurate sleep tracker. He also gave an example of a finding I think based on Fitbit data even though accuracy is poor. If it was Fitbit’s own data from its vast user base, maybe a signal could be seen despite the inaccuracy. I have my Fitbit connected with my All of Us research profile so they can use the data from it.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.


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