List of dairy that's non-inflammatory

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LtCmdData
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List of dairy that's non-inflammatory

Postby LtCmdData » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:29 pm

In my attempts to figure out what lifestyle changes I need to make to optimize my health-span, especially given my 4/4 status, I'm wondering what to do about dairy. I LOVE dairy, and used to drink well over a gallon a week before I started my keto diet in an attempt to optimize my health. And I can't imagine life without cheese. So let's talk about what dairy is not considered to be inflammatory. The information written below is based on my current understanding of things, which could be dead wrong. I'd love for all of you to correct me and/or add to this list, so we dairy lovers can still enjoy some of our beloved foods.

Background:
Dr. Bredesen's protocol talks about avoiding dairy wherever you can because of it's inflammatory nature, which can lead to leaky gut. As with everything, I assume that 'it depends' whether or not this is actually the case. As discussed extensively in this thread, the main culprit of inflammation is actually not the lactose (which you would avoid on keto anyway), but the casein protein. Casein is the largest group of proteins in milk, making up about 80% of the total proteins in milk. It depends on the genotype of the cow what the main forms of casein are in the milk it creates. The two most common casein forms from dairy cows are A1-beta casein and A2-beta casein. According to non-conclusive evidence, it's actually only the A1-casein that's very inflammatory, because digestion of it releases a peptide called "β-casomorphin-7" (BCM‐7). There are breeds of cow (e.g. Jersey, Guernsey, and Brown Swiss cows) that make mostly A2-beta casein, which doesn't metabolize into that amino acid on digestion. It's the BCM-7 that is shown to lead to numerous health problems in many individuals. Again, mostly inconclusive evidence so far as we don't have randomized trials with proper statistical power. One intuitive remark is that human breast milk has the same protein structure as is present in A2 milk.

In practice:
No individual is the same, and there are reports in this thread of people not being able to digest A2 milk. But there are also reports there of people that do really well with it. However, A2 milk is pretty rare, as most of the dairy industry uses the A1-milk producing cows. Kettle from France is often an exception though, and there is genetic variability in the individual cows of the A1-milk producing lineages. So, A2 milk is available on the market, but it's rare and more pricey if you can find it.
However, some A1 milk products also don't contain much/any casein, such as heavy cream, so those would be ok. In addition, Goat and Sheep milk only contain the A2 variant of the casein proteins.

So, to conclude, this is my current list of dairy that is/might be non-inflammatory:
- Heavy cream (virtually no carbs and protein)
- All dairy from A2 cows
- Most French cheeses (b/c made from A2 milk)
- Goat's dairy
- Sheep's dairy
- ...
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Re: List of dairy that's non-inflammatory

Postby CoachDD » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:00 am

As a Certified FM Health Coach, I try to keep up on the latest research. With the exception of your note (and nod) for heavy cream, this is the latest information I have as well. . . I'd add that Ghee (clarified butter) is tolerated well by most.

Dairy is tough to give up for many! I don't drink any and do not eat cheese. I am three years in and can honestly say, I don't miss it. I do use coconut milk for my coffee and sometimes for my smoothies to add fat. My daughter has a difficult time though, for sure!!
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Re: List of dairy that's non-inflammatory

Postby circular » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:45 am

I recently skimmed over a statement somewhere that goat does actually have some A1, just not a lot by ratio to the A2. To be confirmed.

Thank you for bringing your scientific perspective to this topic, that we don’t have high powered studies re: the A1-inflammation connection. I definitely do better off A1. I used to have trouble with A2, or so I thought, but lately I’ve had four ounces of goat milk a day without issue. Not sure I’ll continue but enjoying it for now :)
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: List of dairy that's non-inflammatory

Postby CarrieS » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:54 am

LtCmdData wrote:In my attempts to figure out what lifestyle changes I need to make to optimize my health-span, especially given my 4/4 status, I'm wondering what to do about dairy. I LOVE dairy, and used to drink well over a gallon a week before I started my keto diet in an attempt to optimize my health. And I can't imagine life without cheese. So let's talk about what dairy is not considered to be inflammatory. The information written below is based on my current understanding of things, which could be dead wrong. I'd love for all of you to correct me and/or add to this list, so we dairy lovers can still enjoy some of our beloved foods.
- ...

Years ago, I eliminated all dairy for three weeks and then tried adding in cow & goat milk. Much to my surprise, both made me feel like I'd been kicked by a horse and gave me a really stiff neck (my expression of inflammation). An allergy test a couple of years ago showed that I am allergic to the casein in both cow and goat milk but I CAN tolerate sheep milk. I don't eat a ton of it but have successfully incorporated sheep milk yogurt (a spoonful or two) and sheep milk cheese (Trader Joe's has a great selection but you have to read the labels) without experiencing inflammation. I'm now able to tolerate some cow or goat dairy without a big reaction but definitely feel it when I have too much. I too have learned to use coconut milk in place of cow milk in recipes.
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Re: List of dairy that's non-inflammatory

Postby LtCmdData » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:38 pm

CoachDD wrote:As a Certified FM Health Coach, I try to keep up on the latest research. With the exception of your note (and nod) for heavy cream, this is the latest information I have as well. .
It's just my own inference about the heavy cream. It does contain protein and carbs (in almost equal amounts), so too much will knock me out of ketosis also. I just figure the poison is in the dose

CoachDD wrote:I do use coconut milk for my coffee and sometimes for my smoothies to add fat.
How do you think about the saturated fat content of coconut milk? As far as research is concerned for us E4s, it is unknown whether saturated fat (and thus especially coconut oil, but therefore also heavy cream) should be avoided for cardiovascular health.

A note on that last point. I remember a Peter Attia podcast episode with Rhonda Patrick where they talk about saturated fat intake on a keto diet. In their own clinical experience, roughly 15% or so of their patients responded in a way that greatly increased their LDL-p (Low-Density-Cholesterol Lipoprotein particle number), especially the small particle number. Swapping out the saturated fat content in their diet for poly- and especially monounsaturated fats solved that problem. It's hard to do on a keto diet though, you pretty much have to drink olive oil to hit your macro's. The other 85% percent of patients were fine with saturated fats. I wonder what those percentages are for E4s.
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Re: List of dairy that's non-inflammatory

Postby circular » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:28 pm

LtCmdData wrote:
CoachDD wrote:As a Certified FM Health Coach, I try to keep up on the latest research. With the exception of your note (and nod) for heavy cream, this is the latest information I have as well. .
It's just my own inference about the heavy cream. It does contain protein and carbs (in almost equal amounts), so too much will knock me out of ketosis also. I just figure the poison is in the dose

CoachDD wrote:I do use coconut milk for my coffee and sometimes for my smoothies to add fat.
How do you think about the saturated fat content of coconut milk? As far as research is concerned for us E4s, it is unknown whether saturated fat (and thus especially coconut oil, but therefore also heavy cream) should be avoided for cardiovascular health.

A note on that last point. I remember a Peter Attia podcast episode with Rhonda Patrick where they talk about saturated fat intake on a keto diet. In their own clinical experience, roughly 15% or so of their patients responded in a way that greatly increased their LDL-p (Low-Density-Cholesterol Lipoprotein particle number), especially the small particle number. Swapping out the saturated fat content in their diet for poly- and especially monounsaturated fats solved that problem. It's hard to do on a keto diet though, you pretty much have to drink olive oil to hit your macro's. The other 85% percent of patients were fine with saturated fats. I wonder what those percentages are for E4s.

Although the percentages for apoe4 could be interesting, I’d experiment with diet and watch your own labs to see what works for you :)
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: List of dairy that's non-inflammatory

Postby LtCmdData » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:01 pm

circular wrote:
LtCmdData wrote:Although the percentages for apoe4 could be interesting, I’d experiment with diet and watch your own labs to see what works for you :)
Exactly right! Only thing keeping me back is that I haven't fully settled on a set of biomarkers to get tested for...
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Re: List of dairy that's non-inflammatory

Postby cdamaden » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:56 pm

LtCmdData wrote:A note on that last point. I remember a Peter Attia podcast episode with Rhonda Patrick where they talk about saturated fat intake on a keto diet. In their own clinical experience, roughly 15% or so of their patients responded in a way that greatly increased their LDL-p (Low-Density-Cholesterol Lipoprotein particle number), especially the small particle number. Swapping out the saturated fat content in their diet for poly- and especially monounsaturated fats solved that problem. It's hard to do on a keto diet though, you pretty much have to drink olive oil to hit your macro's. The other 85% percent of patients were fine with saturated fats. I wonder what those percentages are for E4s.


A little further into the details, they also theorized that the common factor was SNP variations in the ppar alpha and ppar gamma genes. I happen to be APO E4/E4 with ppar alpha geneotype rs1800206(C;G) and do experience elevated LDL-P on a diet with saturated fat. Having elevated LDL-P appears to be necessary but perhaps not sufficient to lead to arteriosclerosis. One theory is that you need to have inflammatory elements in place that oxidize the LDL. Fortunately my CAC score is zero, so I take into account my saturated fat but don't avoid it. I do however ensure that I minimize added sugars in my diet, include greens daily (among other reasons, it's theorized to negate red meat's contribution to cancer), and use a lot of olive oil in my cooking and as toppings.

I've noticed some mild arthritis pain (big toe) when I use cow's milk dairy but not so much with goat and sheep's milk dairy.
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Re: List of dairy that's non-inflammatory

Postby LtCmdData » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:37 pm

cdamaden wrote:I happen to be APO E4/E4 with ppar alpha geneotype rs1800206(C;G) and do experience elevated LDL-P on a diet with saturated fat.
Interesting! I have rs1800206(C;C), so my response might be different. How did you check your levels? I mean, LDL has a pretty short half-life in the plasma, about 2 days or so. Did you just make sure you'd have a decent saturated fat intake the couple of days leading up to the blood test, or did you do a longer diet to make sure? Any MCTs? I'm just planning my first set of biomarkers to check, hence the interest.
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Re: List of dairy that's non-inflammatory

Postby SarahB » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:22 am

I'm having no luck extracting evidence based references for a proinflammatory effect from dairy or a leaky gut effect. The only references I can find in PubMed seem to refute both assertions. Does anybody have any peer reviewed references or good key words for a fruitful search?


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