Dutch Woman With Dementia Euthanized Against Her Will. The Doctor Was Just Cleared Of Wrongdoing.

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Dutch Woman With Dementia Euthanized Against Her Will. The Doctor Was Just Cleared Of Wrongdoing.

Postby TheBrain » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:36 am

I didn’t know where to post this story on the forum. Is euthanasia a treatment? I’m horrified by this story.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/51688/du ... stigiacomo
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Re: Dutch Woman With Dementia Euthanized Against Her Will. The Doctor Was Just Cleared Of Wrongdoing.

Postby circular » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:10 am

TheBrain wrote:I didn’t know where to post this story on the forum. Is euthanasia a treatment? I’m horrified by this story.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/51688/du ... stigiacomo

This brings up again the critical need for apoe4 and other individuals to include an advance directive for dementia among their important papers. This is so critical I've just begun a Wiki page under Resources titled Advance Directive for Dementia to help people find what they need to begin the process. It's not legally binding, but it might at least reduce caregiver stress while guiding caregivers and physicians.
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Re: Dutch Woman With Dementia Euthanized Against Her Will. The Doctor Was Just Cleared Of Wrongdoing.

Postby TheBrain » Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:41 am

Excellent point, circular. Thank you for starting this Wiki page. I’ll definitely create an Advanced Directive.

I was curious about Denmark’s healthcare system. It turns out it’s government run. Here’s some text I found out about it:

The Danish healthcare system is universal and based on the principles of free and equal access to healthcare for all citizens. The healthcare system offers high-quality services, the majority of which are financed by general taxes.


I have to question the validity of some aspects of the above statement.

https://www.sum.dk/English/~/media/File ... 6-dec.ashx
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Re: Dutch Woman With Dementia Euthanized Against Her Will. The Doctor Was Just Cleared Of Wrongdoing.

Postby karelena » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:09 pm

The Danish are in Denmark, not Holland/Netherlands where the Dutch live. Denmark is considered one of the happiest countries in the world. I don't think they are killing people with dementia and mental illness.

I have heard that the Dutch practice active euthanasia (as opposed to passive euthanasia, letting nature take its course while the person is kept comfortable and cared for). As a doctor I cannot imagine having someone restrained and giving them a lethal injection. I can understand physician assisted suicide, where the person takes lethal pills of their own volition, but it is a different thing to give an injection to someone who is resisting it. It would be a crime in the US.

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Re: Dutch Woman With Dementia Euthanized Against Her Will. The Doctor Was Just Cleared Of Wrongdoing.

Postby Tincup » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:17 pm

My friend lived in Amsterdam for a while. He told me about a friend of his, in his 40's with bad cancer. The friend was in a lot of pain and no upside. He decided for assisted suicide. The man had a gathering of family and friends for all to say goodby as well as celebrating the man's life. I got the sense from my friend that his friend's exit was typical of assisted suicide. The story sounds unusual, not typical.
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Re: Dutch Woman With Dementia Euthanized Against Her Will. The Doctor Was Just Cleared Of Wrongdoing.

Postby karelena » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:25 pm

I checked, no assisted suicide in Denmark.

Here's the list: Switzerland, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Columbia and Canada. In the US, it is legal in 8 states plus DC. Here's more info if anyone is interested:
https://www.mydeath-mydecision.org.uk/i ... countries/

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Re: Dutch Woman With Dementia Euthanized Against Her Will. The Doctor Was Just Cleared Of Wrongdoing.

Postby circular » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:45 pm

karelena wrote:The Danish are in Denmark, not Holland/Netherlands where the Dutch live. Denmark is considered one of the happiest countries in the world. I don't think they are killing people with dementia and mental illness.

At the same time, I had a friend from Denmark whose grandfather had Alzheimer’s, but the ‘system’ wouldn’t take him in because he was too expensive. He was wandering naked in the snow. They must have provided some care to him, but according to the family it wasn’t nearly what he needed.
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Re: Dutch Woman With Dementia Euthanized Against Her Will. The Doctor Was Just Cleared Of Wrongdoing.

Postby TheBrain » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:17 am

circular wrote:
karelena wrote:The Danish are in Denmark, not Holland/Netherlands where the Dutch live. Denmark is considered one of the happiest countries in the world. I don't think they are killing people with dementia and mental illness.

At the same time, I had a friend from Denmark whose grandfather had Alzheimer’s, but the ‘system’ wouldn’t take him in because he was too expensive. He was wandering naked in the snow. They must have provided some care to him, but according to the family it wasn’t nearly what he needed.


Karelena, thanks for correcting me on the country in question. Of course, the article does mention the Netherlands. And thanks for sharing your view on the matter. I support physician-assisted suicide.

Circular, thanks for sharing your friend’s story about her grandfather. I was going to say something positive about Denmark. Now I won’t.
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Re: Dutch Woman With Dementia Euthanized Against Her Will. The Doctor Was Just Cleared Of Wrongdoing.

Postby SarahB » Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:19 pm

I'm very interested in setting up an advanced direction for assisted suicide at the level of moderate dementia. And I don't want to lay assisted suicide on my husband or kids, for psychological and legal reasons. My husband and I have discussed the issue and he agrees. I'm hoping Australian law will catch up as the boomers pass through (because that's going to be an epic disaster as few have saved a dime and there are so many), but I wouldn't mind flying to a different country, assuming they accept foreigners. I believe that in Washington and Oregon, you need to be a resident and have a short prognosis.

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Re: Dutch Woman With Dementia Euthanized Against Her Will. The Doctor Was Just Cleared Of Wrongdoing.

Postby TheBrain » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:31 am

SarahB wrote:I'm very interested in setting up an advanced direction for assisted suicide at the level of moderate dementia. And I don't want to lay assisted suicide on my husband or kids, for psychological and legal reasons. My husband and I have discussed the issue and he agrees. I'm hoping Australian law will catch up as the boomers pass through (because that's going to be an epic disaster as few have saved a dime and there are so many), but I wouldn't mind flying to a different country, assuming they accept foreigners. I believe that in Washington and Oregon, you need to be a resident and have a short prognosis.


Sarah, I understand your desire to take such action. If/when you learn anything more about what would be involved and whether a non-US citizen could go to Washington or Oregon, please report back to us. I’ve heard of a young US woman with a brain tumor moving to Oregon with her family, something like six months before her death by physician-assisted suicide.

When I was in my 40s, before I knew about my ApoE4 status, I had a weeks long process about whether I would be open to suicide some day, depending on having a deadly disease. My process was triggered by an acquaintance who had committed suicide due to depression (which I suspect can be successfully treated in most cases). I did tons of journaling, had several dreams, and then one night I had severe anxiety before bed. The bottom line was that I had to promise my soul that I would never commit suicide under any circumstance. As soon as I did that, many tears later, the anxiety cleared and I was easily able to fall asleep. I’ve since wondered if I had made some kind of soul contract before coming here to never commit suicide. Hopefully, it’s not because I’m destined to experience dementia! So physician-assisted suicide isn’t something I would do (I’m keeping my promise), but I support others doing it under appropriate circumstances.
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!


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