...TMAO/AGEscircular wrote:is there a general lack of consideration, in studies that link high animal protein consumption to adverse health events,
On the other hand, shifting from a vegetarian diet to an energy dense Western diet, based on the intake of saturated fat, meat and eggs, and only a little fiber and few polyphenols, may provide substrates to the microbiota, such as carnitine and choline. Trimethylammine (TMA) is a detrimental product of their metabolism in the gut, converted into its oxide TMAO in the liver. TMAO may be associated with cardiovascular events , may also be present in human cerebrospinal fluid  and is elevated in Alzheimer’s disease . Furthermore, the carnivorous diet provides high amounts of saturated fatty acids and cholesterol that increase the production of bile acids. Their subsequent conversion by the gut microbiota into deoxycholic acid and lithocolic acid, which are toxic for other, mainly beneficial, gut microbes, may lead to a decrease in microbial biodiversity and gut dysbiosis.
TheresaB wrote:...TMAO/AGEscircular wrote:is there a general lack of consideration, in studies that link high animal protein consumption to adverse health events,
Just this past weekend this paper was published Undigested Food and Gut Microbiota May Cooperate in the Pathogenesis of Neuroinflammatory Diseases: A Matter of Barriers and a Proposal on the Origin of Organ Specificity...
This study demonstrated that although oral L-carnitine supplementation was associated with increased TMAO levels, it might be beneficial on vascular injury in patients on HD. Vasculoprotective properties of L-carnitine supplementation in HD [hemodialysis] patients might be ascribed partly to its inhibitory actions on AGE. [Emphasis added]
L-carnitine supplementation elevated fasting plasma carnitine in the mid-point of our study and it remained increased until the end of supplementation period. Moreover, it induced tenfold increase in plasma TMAO concentration but did not affect serum C-reactive protein, interleukin-6, tumour necrosis factor-α, L-selectin, P-selectin, vascular cell adhesion molecule-1, intercellular adhesion molecule-1 or lipid profile markers.
During this period, no modifications in serum lipid profile and circulating leukocyte count were noted.
... there were no significant changes in serum ox-LDL, myeloperoxidase, protein carbonyls, homocysteine, and uric acid concentrations due to supplementation. Significant reduction in white blood cell counts has been observed following 24-week supplementation, but not attributable to L-carnitine. Our results in healthy aged women indicated no relation between TMAO and any determined marker of oxidative stress over the period of 24 weeks
circular wrote:My predicament is that I am doing better eating more animal protein but also test high for serum TMAO along with chronically elevated hsCRP.
SusanJ wrote:circular wrote:My predicament is that I am doing better eating more animal protein but also test high for serum TMAO along with chronically elevated hsCRP.
Sarah Ballantyne agrees that it's probably related to microbiome and as she points out, fish is high in TMAO, but is generally heart healthy (see my post on that here).
The only thing that seems clear about TMAO is that gut health seems to be the key.
circular wrote:So this thinking goes: If your microbiome is well balanced the TMAO isn't an issue?
More broadly, though, in humans, Methanobrevibacter abundance is positively associated with higher carbohydrate consumption (both recent and long-term), and negatively associated with recent consumption of fat (especially vegetable fat and polyunsaturated fat intake) and amino acids. Although more research is definitely needed, the picture getting painted so far is that archaea benefit from a variety of plant polysaccharides, and not so much from animal-based diets.
However, this isn’t because the archaea themselves eat carbohydrate. In fact, methanogenic archaea have an almost complete lack of enzymes for breaking down complex carbohydrates into simple sugars. What does appear to be happening is that archaea thrive off the metabolic products of carbohydrate-loving bacteria, and therefore are still dependent on dietary carbohydrate for their own survival!
PeteWilliams wrote:Paper is here:
and garlic can be preventative, as can resveratrol.
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