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Re: Supplements I take and why

Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:10 pm
by TheBrain
Ssa wrote:I kept getting worse too over the past 12 years until my last DEXA scan. I went from my worst vertebrae at -3.3 to a -2.5. The rest all moved into osteopenia. One part of hip even went -07. I was ecstatic.

The two years prior to this scan I started following Better Bones Better Body.

Congratulations on your bone mineral density (BMD) improvements! You’re an inspiration! Thank you for describing your regimen. It sounds doable.

I poked around on and found the book you followed (written by Susan Brown). I’ll go ahead and buy it. (Just wish she had a Kindle version.)

Thanks, too, for providing the links to those two papers. My goodness, the correlation between low BMD and ApoE4 (and ApoE2) in that one study is disturbing. Anecdotally, my 3/3 sister has strong bones. She’ll never even get osteopenia. Here I am, 4/4, with osteoporosis in my hips and spine.

I tested my urine pH a few years ago when I did Summer Bock’s Probiotic Power Cleanse course. I was clearly acidic and didn’t even attempt the deep phase of the cleanse. I’ve been dealing with mold toxicity for a long time, so I suspect that’s been a factor in my case.

I can’t thank you enough!

P.S. I’m sorry to hear about your technical issues. If my only computer was my phone, I’d be in big trouble.

Re: Supplements I take and why

Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:40 pm
by Ssa
I’ve never read dr browns book. I just follow her on Facebook. She is mainly about doing it all with diet. Fruits and veggies. I do that but I just can’t eat as much as I would have to do to get that much potassium. I also follow dr berg on Facebook and a few others. Everybody sells their supplements and I can’t pay that much and all else I want to do. For instance dr berg sells a potassium powder to get 1000mg a scoop. It had other things in it but $40 a month. My potassium powder is more like 8 or 9 dollars a month.

I also think the phosphatidylcholine would help with cleaning out your mold issue.

Do you have any mthfr snips?

Thank you on my congrats!! I really wish doctors would listen to me. I would never take any drugs for my osteoporosis or cholesterol. Only prescriptions I do are synthroid and my bio identical hormones

Re: Supplements I take and why

Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:51 am
by TheBrain
Thanks for clarifying that you didn’t need to read Dr. Brown’s book and that you got the information you needed from her and others on Facebook. I’ll check them out and see if that’s enough. One thing is that I can’t live on fruit and veggies alone. I need animal protein (which I know is acidic).

I’m taking Empirical Labs’ Phospholipid Complex, made from sunflower lecithin. So I’m good there.

I have one copy of MTHFR C677T. I take 1000 mcg of methyl folate per day. As I detox, that dose keeps my homocysteine in check.

I, too, will never take drugs for my osteoporosis. The potential side effects are horrendous.

Re: Supplements I take and why

Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:15 pm
by circular
Ssa wrote:Here is another link in case you are nervous taking so much extra potassium ... cle/485434

Thank you. I'll have to tackle that later. TMI for my limited bandwidth at present. This book was recommended to me, so I bought it but haven't ever read it: Dr. Lani's No-Nonsense Bone Health Guide.

Re: Supplements I take and why

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:33 am
by circular
Ssa wrote:You have to check ph throughout day to see what you need.

Hi Ssa, do you pretty much shoot for about 6.0, the average? Does Better Bones Better Body advocate more alkaline than that? I would think staying around 6.0 would be desirable?

I got the Hydrion strips for urine testing. The first one I did I was clearly acidic. The next one, days later and not doing anything to try to become more alkaline, I was in the 6+/<7 range. It will be interesting to see if there are clear patterns in response to my diet, morning vs evening, and so on.

When it was more alkaline I did find it hard to distinguish just which square on the template it matched from three that are very close in color, but it was clearly different from the first test.

It's interesting you don't mention calcium in your bone health routine. I know the K2 is, at least in part, to keep calcium going to bone and not harming the vasculature. I'm wondering, if you don't supplement it (and I need to back page to your supplements list to see if you do!), what are your major dietary sources? I really need to get a grip on my calcium intake, since I only have a shot of goat milk keifer a day for dairy. I do eat a lot of greens but haven't checked how much calcium they're providing. I mix the types of greens a lot, so I don't think I could even do that accurately. My sardines, sadly, only contribute 10% DV. I thought it was more. Maybe that had been the salmon with bones I used to eat so much of but cut back due to cost and the histamine.

Re: Supplements I take and why

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:20 pm
by circular
Ssa wrote:You have to check ph throughout day to see what you need.

I'm still actually wondering whether urine pH is a good guide to blood pH and am not convinced yet. This non-scientific page suggests that urine should be acidic to show your system is removing toxins (presumably to include normal metabolic byproducts etc), while saliva should be alkaline to show internal pH.

A chemist in earlier life commenting on this site suggests much higher than normal blood pH for health, but that leads us back to how to determine blood pH directly and whether urine pH is adequate in this role.
As a point to this, the blood itself is not as badly damaged by a low pH as the core is [if blood is not the 'core', what is?]. When [blood?] pH drops to an low level, about 7.25 pH, which is still actually alkaline, the kidneys start to fail. They can not properly function when the blood pH gets that low. Remember, the kidneys are pumping out acidity much of the time. We also get some out through the lungs as carbon dioxide.

However, even more sensitive is the ability of immune cells to properly respond. Almost all of the immune cells have an optimum pH of about 7.38. Even a slight variation in either direction can have a dampening effect on the immune cells. [Emphasis added]

So this guy is also suggesting that the kidneys should be ridding the body of acidic components.

Gee, it would be helpful to have a validated test of immune cell pH!

I wonder of Better Body Better Bones parses all this out. I don't have time to read books these day, just dip into stuff inadequately here and there.

Re: Supplements I take and why

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:33 am
by Ssa
Hi circular
Sorry I haven’t checked back in to see your questions. I read a great deal on urine ph and there are a lot of doctors that think that it’s normal to have an acidic urine ph and some say your blood ph is always in a normal range. However the body will keep your blood in the normal ph range or you would die but in order to do that it has to have alkaline minerals or a high fruit and vegetable diet to do that. My thinking is that my genetics doesn’t handle this well. I’m surprised that your 3/4 lends to osteoporosis. My sister doesn’t have it like I do and she is 3/4. I have talked to and observed many senior citizens in my high retirement town. Some clearly don’t have a great diet and don’t have osteoporosis well into their 80s. To me their genetics which I don’t know is more equipped to deal with toxins and bone turnover. All I know is one of the things I changed in the past two years caused a major turn around. The main changes are more k2 mk7, phosphatidylcholine , alkaline balance by source natural, potassium citrate, little less protein and salad/veggies, and tracking my ph.

Re: Supplements I take and why

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:47 am
by Ssa
I just read my reply and meant I eat more salad and veggies. I also take a lot of potassium citrate, about 1000 to 12000 mg in morning and before bed either in pills or powder added to my lemon ginger water. I did reduce my calcium in my supplements. I get about 400 to 600 mg with alkaline balance and then I eat cheese and ice cream. There is also more than I think in my diet veggies salad and protein. In Europe the recommended daily allowance is lower than U.S. at around 600 to 700 mg I think. I’ve worried about getting too much. My husband had 100% blocked carotid artery and had surgery and mine is mild but don’t want it to build up

Re: Supplements I take and why

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:58 pm
by Ssa
Geez I should proof my posts!! I meant I take 1000mg to 1200 mg of potassium citrate in morning and again at night. I found that with estimating how potassium I was eating did not come near the 4700mg rda. Even with supplementing and diet I’m probably still not getting there but I’m a lot closer. Then tracking my calcium in diet and supplements I was getting too much. Many years ago before I was worried about any of this or aging, I would do the Atkins diet for weight loss. He said that when going into ketosis you would dump all your potassium and needed to replace. He recommended no salt. So I would do that. I was most likely very deficient in potassium. Now I do intermittent fasting and semi keto. I’m sure I lose or dump a good bit of potassium then as well. So I supplement.

As far as urine ph, the debate is always on among the experts. Yes the kidneys and liver deal with toxins and correct that or we would die. This has to be done to keep the blood ph in a tight range. If we have a glitz in our genetics (and no I don’t know what that is) we don’t handle the toxins very well. Or we need a certain diet from which our genetics evolved. Mine is so mixed up and with our varied genetics from so many regions. I’m mainly European with some Cherokee and Choctaw our systems don’t know what it needs. One genetic site said that E2 needed to eat low carb high fat and e4 needed to eat low fat high carb. Or vice versa I can’t remember but I’m always finding that I should do both. Point being is I keep trying till I get results which I did.

I know that if I eat a semi keto. Not much bread or sugar if any and moderate protein cause I take a lot of collagen with a lot of salad and veggies my ph is close to 7. And if eating healthy makes your urine ph closer to 7 than very acidic then it should be there. The alkaline foods give neutralizing power of toxins. Then your body doesn’t have to take it from your bones to stay alive.

Re: Supplements I take and why

Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:24 pm
by circular
Thanks for taking all that time to reply Ssa. I'm impressed and happy for you that you've reversed your bone density. You're the first person I've ever heard say that.

I found this clip referencing a 2010 paper correlating postassium citrate with increased bone mineral density and improved bone architecture. This is important, because some things increase BMD without improving the architecture, so the bones are still more brittle.
November 29, 2010 (Denver, Colorado) — Daily supplementation with potassium citrate significantly increases bone mineral density (BMD) in the elderly and might even be an effective treatment for age-related bone loss, according to a 2-year placebo-controlled study presented here at Renal Week 2010: American Society of Nephrology 43rd Annual Meeting.

The Swiss study showed that after 2 years of daily supplementation with 60 mmol potassium citrate, the BMD of 201 healthy elderly subjects significantly increased, compared with those who received a placebo, and bone architecture improved. [Emphasis added]

I haven't checked to see what more recent studies may have cited or replicated this.

I guess what I should be focusing on is providing my body with enough alkalinity to draw from without going to bones but not so much that it could have adverse effects. Presumably my urine pH will go up as you describe, but I trust that detox will take place in that environment as well, regardless of whether urine acidity reflects detox.

I was also looking into cumin for other reasons and found this:
The presence of phytoestrogens in cumin has been shown and also related to its anti-osteoporotic effects. In the animals receiving a methanolic extract of cumin, a significant reduction in urinary calcium excretion and augmentation of calcium content and mechanical strength of bones was found. Animals showed greater bone and ash densities and improved microarchitecture, with no adverse effects like body weight gain and weight of atrophic uterus.[131] [Emphasis added]