APOE 4/4 Specific diet - Dr. Gundry or not?

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
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Re: APOE 4/4 Specific diet - Dr. Gundry or not?

Postby MarcR » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:30 pm

dfmcapecod wrote:That was not at all how my comment was intended whatsoever.
Thank you for clarifying your intent.

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Re: APOE 4/4 Specific diet - Dr. Gundry or not?

Postby dfmcapecod » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:45 pm

SusanJ wrote:So consider both doing labs and tracking how you feel to see how your experiments go.

Yes! @SusanJ. In the past few years, I have started my own personal n=1 tracker which covers variables likes:

    General musings/mood/wellbeing/depression
    Headaches/Migraines (which I suffer a TON from)
    Headache Intensity
    Coffee & Caffeine consumption
    Hours of sleep
    What medications/supplements I took (worked hard to get down to none while losing lots of weight and adding exercise regiments)

I know I'm absolutely lactose intolerant. From basic self awareness and genetic confirmation. I do fit the Dr. Gundry cheese addict profile and that has been one of the most difficult things to remove from my diet over the years but I do manage now.

I have stumbled upon the grid of ranges for goal test comparisons between various programs/Dr's on this site on the google sheet link, this helps compare things. Since I think that's a good place for many logical/manage-what-can-be-measured types like myself who want to have the hard data next to the subjective or softer variables.

When I read through lots of posts, it seems like many people want to participate, but based on what I see in the sheet, few people actually do over the years.

So it looks like I will be working on continuing to morph towards a mediterranean diet, with an eye on adding some tests to see where my inflammation numbers are. Without success, then I could try killing lectins (ala Dr. Gundry) and see if both wellbeing, headaches and inflammation values come into clarity or not.

For me this is not just about beating or improving my odds of defeating/preventing eventual AD onset, as much as it is solving for chronic headache issues that so far have been a fifteen year mess of Dr's and no results. If I trust the relationship between inflammation, chronic cardiovascular risk specifically with APOE 4/4's I'm kinda betting a bit on it having something to do with my headaches.

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Re: APOE 4/4 Specific diet - Dr. Gundry or not?

Postby SusanJ » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:35 pm

Sounds like a good plan.

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Re: APOE 4/4 Specific diet - Dr. Gundry or not?

Postby Tincup » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:02 pm

fmcapecod wrote:
Upton Sinclair, 1911 wrote:You may read a glowing account of some diet system by which some other person has worked miracles, and you may try it, and persist in it for a long time, and finally come to realize that it was the worst diet you could possibly have been following.
from his book: The Fasting Cure (an interesting book).

In Stavia's Primer, she has these sections:

1. Lowering insulin resistance
2. Exercise
3. Sleep
4. Stress management
5. Eating a healthy diet with heaps of micronutrients. These include vitamins, minerals and the amazing molecules made by plants - called phytochemicals. There are also nutrients in animal-based food. See this article. We will discuss what a "healthy" diet means to different people.
6. Cognitive enhancement
7. Social enhancement
8. Taking some important supplements if you are not able to get what you need from diet or sunlight.

As to #1, lowering insulin resistance, Dale Bredesen in a recently released interview with Ivor Cummins called this "the low hanging fruit."

There is a group of us that have been here a while that got together in person in 2015 in Berkeley for meetings with Dr. Bredesen, lipid researcher, Dr. Ron Krauss, of CHORI, Dr. Robert Mahley and Dr. Yadong Huang (small molecule ApoE4 corrector researchers) at the Gladstone Institute. We met again in Boulder at the AHS16 conference where Julie Gee invited both Drs. Bredesen and Gundry to present (and she introduced them and they became friends and colleagues). We met again at Low Carb San Diego in 2017. At AHS 16 Terry Wahls was also presenting, her ghostwriter is a member of our group. At AHS 16 Gundry, Bredesen and Wahls joined our group for dinner for 3 nights. My point is that one can look closely at these three docs and what they prescribe and see differences. However, when looked at from 30,000' and compared to what the population does, they all look the same. This can also be said of our group of ApoE4.info members that attended these events. We all follow Stavia's main points in some fashion or another. Again, you can find differences in the details, but when compared to the general population, we are all very similar.

As to why I selected Gundry to consult with, when I learned of our ApoE4 status in 2014, I asked, "what clinician has been studying this in his patients for a long time." Turns out Gundry had been testing for it for ~14 years at that time. I was not aware of other clinicians that had been doing this (I shared our labs with a doc friend who has been treating with low carb diets for 20 years, his comment - OMG! - because of the number of metrics tested from various laboratories). Because he uses a large battery of tests on each patient, he had the opportunity to observe how they responded to different dietary suggestions. Because of these extensive tests he runs on us, it gives an opportunity to see the impact of our choices.

As to supplements, as I mentioned he doesn't push his products on patients. I have friends, a couple - he is now 89 and she is 77 - who are Gundry patients. They allowed me to listen to a recording of one of their remote phone consults. Gundry was suggesting a certain supplement. He asked if they were Costco members. No. He then asked if they shopped on Amazon. No. Then he asked if they lived near a Trader Joes. Yes. After that, throughout the consult, for any supplement suggestions, he named ones they could procure at Trader Joes.

Gundry does have a number of controversial recommendations, including lectin avoidance. He does note that lectin sensitivity is individual and many of his forbidden lectin containing foods can be consumed if pressure cooked (does not apply to forbidden grains). He also notes that this may not work for the most sensitive people. He also notes that some patients who are gluten sensitive can go to Southern Europe and eat the yeast risen white bread (without benefit of GMO's & glyphosate) sans issues.

Certainly, we don't think Gundry has all the answers and we, like others look at many recommendations.

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Re: APOE 4/4 Specific diet - Dr. Gundry or not?

Postby Bomag » Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:50 am

Thank you, SusanJ. My story is very similar to yours. I was diagnosed with the autoimmune diseases Lupus and Sjogrens about 12 years ago and started taking immunosuppressants. I went dairy free and gluten free right away, then added lots of veggies. Then went vegan GF, and finally, when The Paleo Mom introduced the Autoimmune Protocol, I found a way to become pain free. My pain is all in soft tissue around the joints and lower back, not in the bony parts at all, so I figure that's my marker of inflammation. I have no traditional blood markers of inflammation. It gets better when I eat animal protein and non-nightshade veggies and very limited amounts of fruit. I feel better eating saturated fats - digests well, satisfying, and my joints are happy. According to just my joint pain, I find I can also add back in reasonable amounts of nightshades and some dried beans (refried beans and salsa - hooray).

So as I got older (I'm now 70), my forgetfulness in increasing. And I found out I was 4/4. I found Dr. Bredeson's book and this forum. I'm thinking that joint pain isn't the only metric I should be using to judge what I eat. My cholesterol numbers are usually high, so I've been taking statins. I'm now trying to substitute monounsaturated fats for saturated ones and limiting my protein amounts. This is hard for me because I don't wish to lose any additional weight. And if I don't eat enough fat, I feel like my sugars are unhappy - mostly low?. Eating land animals is not sustainable (besides unkind) but it feels so good to my body. I even tried insects as a protein source (high omega 3s) but they're hard to digest. Nuts increase inflammation.

I haven't heard anyone discuss low blood sugar on this forum. Is it as dangerous as high blood sugar?

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