GKI Calculations on Keto-Mojo site

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Jan18
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GKI Calculations on Keto-Mojo site

Post by Jan18 »

Has anyone seen the GKI calculator on Keto-Mojo.com? I am probably late on this, but just noticed it a week or so ago. I'm wondering if this is an approved measurement by those in the know in this community.

I am usually in the 3-6 category of "moderate ketosis" but this chart seems to be saying I should be in the 1-3 category of "deep ketosis" for Alzheimer's. Do they mean if I am already diagnosed with AD (which I'm not) or do they mean to prevent it?

I took it to mean as a therapeutic range for those already diagnosed, especially since Bredesen wants us to be in "moderate ketosis."

Or has something changed?

Thanks to all who can provide feedback. Here is the link:
https://keto-mojo.com/glucose-ketone-index-gki/
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Re: GKI Calculations on Keto-Mojo site

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Jan18 wrote:Has anyone seen the GKI calculator on Keto-Mojo.com? I am probably late on this, but just noticed it a week or so ago. I'm wondering if this is an approved measurement by those in the know in this community.

I am usually in the 3-6 category of "moderate ketosis" but this chart seems to be saying I should be in the 1-3 category of "deep ketosis" for Alzheimer's. Do they mean if I am already diagnosed with AD (which I'm not) or do they mean to prevent it?

I took it to mean as a therapeutic range for those already diagnosed, especially since Bredesen wants us to be in "moderate ketosis."

https://keto-mojo.com/glucose-ketone-index-gki/
Here is my take. First, for those who don't know, the GKI was developed by Dr. Thomas Seyfried of Boston College. His primary use was for cancer patients. It is defined as glucose in mmol/L divided by ketones (serum betahydroxybuterate - BHB) in mmol/L. In the US, glucose is usually measured in mg/dL, so to convert to mmol/L you divide the glucose reading by 18 (18.02 to be exact) to get mmol/L. The Keto Mojo calculator does this for you.

Some examples, if you glucose was 80 mg/dL, that equals 4.4 mmol/L (80/18). So let us look at GKI for different ketone levels.

Ketones GKI
0.5 8.8
1 4.4
1.5 2.9
2 2.2

and so on.

Now, in my experience, the higher your ketone levels are, the lower your glucose is. So one interpretation of GKI is that it is an indicator of insulin. The lower the GKI, the lower the insulin. Ketones tend to be inversely proportional to insulin.

Some people can really tell the difference between a ketone level of 0.5 mmol/L and 4 mmol/L in how they feel and how their brain performs. My 4/4 wife and I are not these people. I can be at 0, 0.5 or 8.0 mmol/L (on an extended water fast) and I still feel the same. In my opinion, the most important thing is that you make some ketones. This indicates you don't have a high insulin level. I know that if I start an extended water fast, I don't have an adaptation period - I am metabolically flexible. This isn't to say that higher levels of BHB aren't important in some circumstances.

My opinion - I don't think for most folks, trying to push for a really low GKI all the time is necessary. I have a son with a glioblastoma (brain cancer). Ideally, his GKI would be <=1 all the time. That is difficult to do while eating. I know a lady with a different, but as severe brain cancer who does this, but it takes a lot of dedication. She's had this cancer, which has a life expectancy of 12-18 months, for around 8 years and is still doing very well. In her case, it makes a lot of sense.

If you are not symptomatic with AD, then I think being in mild ketosis is fine. At least that is what I do most of the time.
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Re: GKI Calculations on Keto-Mojo site

Post by Jan18 »

Tincup wrote:
If you are not symptomatic with AD, then I think being in mild ketosis is fine. At least that is what I do most of the time.

Thank you for that informative answer, Tincup! I really appreciate it. It will help me keep things in perspective. Since I posted, my GKI has been steadily in the 3-6 range.

Having blood work done next week.

Sincerely,
Barbara
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Re: GKI Calculations on Keto-Mojo site

Post by floramaria »

Jan18 wrote: I am usually in the 3-6 category of "moderate ketosis" but this chart seems to be saying I should be in the 1-3 category of "deep ketosis" for Alzheimer's. Do they mean if I am already diagnosed with AD (which I'm not) or do they mean to prevent it?
HI Jan, It is my understanding also is that a lower level of ketosis is fine for prevention.
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Re: GKI Calculations on Keto-Mojo site

Post by circular »

Jan18 wrote:Has anyone seen the GKI calculator on Keto-Mojo.com? I am probably late on this, but just noticed it a week or so ago. I'm wondering if this is an approved measurement by those in the know in this community...
Hi Jan,

You may want to check out this thread. I find the conversation there interesting, especially aphorists' comment:
I think to really understand granularity of GKI at 2.0 vs. 1.0, etc. we would need to measure flux. There would have to be some kind of radio-labeled measurement of the rate of ketones, glucose being utilized by muscle, brain, etc. in order to really understand substrate utilization at various levels.
I would add to 'in order to really understand substrate utilization at various levels' ... and assess individual variation.

I'm glad you brought this up. I've been wanting to get back to that older thread and re-read it.

I also continue to stumble with the fact that BHB represents storage ketones, but how does this work? As I understand it, we don't produce ketones until after glycogen is depleted...

So let's take a low level of .5 mmol ... From the moment that glycogen is depleted, is the body immediately using fewer ketones than it's producing, so the .5 is what's left over even while as many were produced as needed?

Or, does glycogen deplete and we start making 'storage' BHB while continuing to use glucose that's still available in the blood even after glycogen is done and dusted? This presents the possibility that one can resupply their glycogen before ever getting to use that low level of ketones (I picked a really low level to make the point, but it might apply at 1.0 mmol?) If one did this continuously, they would never be -- as Tincup discusses -- keto adapted.

At what glycogen depleted, blood glucose level does the body start using the ketones and where? I think this is what aphorist may be asking about flux?
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
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Re: GKI Calculations on Keto-Mojo site

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circular wrote: At what glycogen depleted, blood glucose level does the body start using the ketones and where? I think this is what aphorist may be asking about flux?
Without looking it up, I think insulin, rather than glucose levels control ketone production. Also, as I recall, the guy who created the Ketonix ketone breath meter did it because he developed seizures and found acetoacetate (which the breath meter measures) rather than BHB levels correlated better with seizure prevention. His material suggested that the acetoacetate levels were a better "real time" measure of ketone production. I'd posted on this 5 years ago, but unfortunately my links from that post to the Ketonix site are now broken. This was displayed graphically.

Here is one post on the Ketonix site.
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Re: GKI Calculations on Keto-Mojo site

Post by Jan18 »

Tincup wrote:
Here is one post on the Ketonix site.
Well, from as much as I understand about that, then how do we really know if we are in ketosis? For me, I'm losing weight, but I attribute that to the low carb/high fat protocol. Subjectively, I feel like my brain is functioning better and it's not foggy, like it could get before.
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