Does Black Coffee Break a Fast?

[Tiramisu1984]

I thought I was doing well with intermittent fasting until a friend told me that Dr. Rhonda Patrick says coffee breaks the fast.....thoughts?

[Tincup]

I thought I was doing well with intermittent fasting until a friend told me that Dr. Rhonda Patrick says coffee breaks the fast.....thoughts?

A couple of quotes from some fasting books:

Coffee - Coffee induces autophagy and has benefits on cellular metabolism[596]. It can also stabilize blood sugar, enhance fat oxidation, and protect against neurodegeneration, which makes it the perfect drink for fasting. However, too much caffeine will raise cortisol, which can promote inflammation and visceral fat formation around your belly.

Land, Siim. Metabolic Autophagy: Practice Intermittent Fasting and Resistance Training to Build Muscle and Promote Longevity (Metabolic Autophagy Diet Book 1) (p. 313). Kindle Edition.

Most definitions of fasting allow noncaloric drinks only. This means that water, tea, and black coffee are all allowed during fasting.

Fung, Jason,Moore, Jimmy. The Complete Guide to Fasting: Heal Your Body Through Intermittent, Alternate-Day, and Extended (p. 193). Victory Belt Publishing. Kindle Edition.

That being said, I did a search on coffee on the FB group: The Fasting Method Network by Dr. Jason Fung & Megan Ramos

Some folks had various problems with coffee, raising blood sugar (likely from raising cortisol), inhibiting weight loss & etc. So likely individual. Also, depends on what your fasting objective is.

I think Rhonda may be going off of Satchin Panda's work & that drinking coffee may start the circadian clock.

The Coffee Productivity Myth The active ingredient in coffee is caffeine, which does not have any nutritional benefit; our body doesn’t need caffeine to function. Caffeine is found naturally in more than four dozen plants and pods, including the coffee bean, tea leaf, kola nut, and cacao bean. People consume caffeine in many forms—coffee, tea, cocoa, chocolate, soft drinks, energy drinks, and some over-the-counter medications. Typically, 100 to 200 milligrams of caffeine (found in three 8-ounce cups of medium-roast coffee, or two to three bars of dark chocolate) is considered moderate daily intake. One cup of tea can have 25 to 30 milligrams of caffeine. Caffeine is a stimulant, and in a low to moderate dose, it can increase alertness and reduce sleepiness. For the average person, the effect is almost instantaneous: Most of the caffeine is absorbed within 15 minutes and can start its stimulating effect in that time frame. Although coffee can improve alertness, it does not remove your sleep debt. Rather, it delays that sleep pressure to a later time. That is why sleep-deprived people tend to have a “caffeine crash” after the effect wears off. They need another dose of coffee to keep them awake. In the evening, caffeine intake combined with light exposure can further delay your sleep. Even though a study published in the British Medical Journal declared in its headline that “Coffee Gets a Clean Bill of Health,”17,18 some caution is urgently needed. The article also states that the health benefit of coffee is correlative and no formal cause is established. It also cautions that physiological effects of coffee on increased heart rate, stimulation of the central nervous system, and feelings of anxiety were not taken into consideration. Other pro-caffeine reviews also excluded studies that focused on the adverse effect of coffee on sleep quality or duration19 and did not mention other studies that have shown coffee can compromise how our body handles glucose20 or how coffee directly disrupts our circadian rhythms.21 An increasing problem in the United States is that popular “coffee” drinks have become sizeable 16- to 24-ounce concoctions of syrups, whipped cream, milk, and caramel sauce topped with coffee.22 Coffee in this form is a vessel for empty calories in the form of added sugar. Overall, coffee does work as a quick fix to hack your sleepiness, but it’s not an ideal choice for optimal health.

Panda, Satchin. The Circadian Code (p. 133). Potter/Ten Speed/Harmony/Rodale. Kindle Edition.

8. What about coffee? Drinking coffee is one of the most difficult habits to get in alignment with your circadian code because it directly affects sleep. If you have a strong coffee habit, it might be a signal that your sleep is off. For instance, if you’re addicted to an early morning cup or two to make sure you’re fully awake, it is a sign that you’re not getting enough sleep, or enough restful sleep, at night. In our most recent research that follows the TRE patterns of shift-working firefighters and medical residents/nurses, we found that if these individuals stay awake all night or have fragmented sleep, their morning coffee is often used as a “safety drug” that helps them stay awake while driving back home. However, using a cup of coffee in this manner eventually backfires, because it prevents them from getting fully restorative sleep during the day. We suggested that they try to carpool or take public transportation so that they could get better sleep during the day and return in better shape to be productive at work the following day. Even if you have your morning coffee by itself, without breakfast, it still counts as the moment when you break your overnight fast, so keep that in mind regarding your TRE window. Think about when you want to have that coffee, especially if you take it with cream and/or sugar. Once you’re addicted to coffee, you may need an additional caffeine boost in the late afternoon. This second round is very likely to interfere with sleep. Coffee can stay in your system as long as 10 hours. That’s why the conventional wisdom is to avoid coffee past noon. If you are having a lag in energy in the afternoon, it’s possible that you’re dehydrated: Try a glass of water and see how you feel.

Panda, Satchin. The Circadian Code (pp. 108-109). Potter/Ten Speed/Harmony/Rodale. Kindle Edition.

[floramaria]

Hi Tiramisu,
From most perspectives, including my own, as long as no calories are consumed, the fast is not broken.
Most people do not believe that black coffee interferes with a fast. Black coffee has been shown to be beneficial for ketosis.

If I understand correctly, Rhonda Patrick's objection to coffee is that the caffeine disrupts circadian rhythm and impacts metabolism. Primary argument regarding metabolism is that caffeine may cause release of stored glucagon. Here is a link to 7 minute video with RP discussing this with Satchin Panda. https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes ... -your-fast
If that link doesn't work, you can type into a search engine "does black coffee break a fast + Rhonda Patrick" and you will get to the video.
I watched the video and it did not change my mind on the subject. I still feel comfortable drinking black coffee or tea during my fasting window. But that is up to each person to decide.

[Tiramisu1984]

Tincup and Floramaria, thank you!!

[circular]

I'm also fairly comfortable drinking coffee when I get up (but not any later in the day), even though breakfast may be 2-3 hours away. While I'm a bit concerned about ignoring Satchin Panda's input that it disrupts the circadian clock, apparently participants were allowed to have coffee during their fast in the (small) study that suggested a 13 hour fast lowers recurrence of breast cancer 37%. I would like to better understand what Satchin Panda bases his statement on that it will disrupt the circadian rhythm. Has he established that or hypothesizes it? If I had to give up coffee during the fast I would just give it up altogether.

[DoubleBond]

Very interesting info, thanks Tincup and floramaria.

There is also an interesting recent video from Dr. Nadir Ali presenting arguments that caffeine increases fat burning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqKW3FJ ... adirmirali
and also that fasting + caffeine + exercise is particularly good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9SqXX3 ... adirmirali
as "caffeine plus exercise dramatically increases fat oxidation & ketone body production."

I also think that the answer to the question "Does Black Coffee Break a Fast?" may depend on whether we are talking about an intermittent fasting (IF 16:8 etc) or a multi-day fast. For intermittent fasting, I would think that coffee would hasten the emptying of glycogen stores, so it would be helpful. In a multi-day fast, glycogen is already empty, and this argument would not apply.

[floramaria]

While I'm a bit concerned about ignoring Satchin Panda's input that it disrupts the circadian clock...

Hi circular, I listened to the interview segment with Rhonda Patrick and Satchin Panda, and while I admit that my interpretation of what he said may be influenced by my own strong pro coffee bias, I believe his argument about disruption in circadian rhythm was linked with drinking coffee later in the day. There are many reports of the benefits of drinking coffee, like the one you cite in your post. My impression is that as long as the coffee drinking is early in the day, it shouldn’t have much impact on circadian rhythm.

Matthew Walker goes into detail about caffeine in Why We Sleep. He states that the half life is 5 to 7 hours. So , according to my Coffee-friendly interpretation, caffeine early in the day should have been processed enough by evening that it does not interfere with circadian rhythm or sleep pressure, the 2 factors impacting sleep.

[circular]

Hi circular, I listened to the interview segment with Rhonda Patrick and Satchin Panda, and while I admit that my interpretation of what he said may be influenced by my own strong pro coffee bias, I believe his argument about disruption in circadian rhythm was linked with drinking coffee later in the day. There are many reports of the benefits of drinking coffee, like the one you cite in your post. My impression is that as long as the coffee drinking is early in the day, it shouldn’t have much impact on circadian rhythm.

Thanks I hope that's true I also have the genetic variant that can slow down coffee metabolism, which is my experience if I drink caffeine after noon, although I seem to do okay with a green tea before 2 or so. I like to get the benefits of both coffee (when I get up) and green tea (later).

[BrianR]

Note that coffee does contain fiber. So if part of your fasting discipline is making your gut microbiome go hungry for a bit too, then coffee will break that aspect of the fast. However, I doubt that there's much good science out there to guide you. (Although there are plenty of smart, scientifically knowledgeable people with opinions, which is at least psychologically rewarding.)

[circular]

Note that coffee does contain fiber. So if part of your fasting discipline is making your gut microbiome go hungry for a bit too, then coffee will break that aspect of the fast. However, I doubt that there's much good science out there to guide you. (Although there are plenty of smart, scientifically knowledgeable people with opinions, which is at least psychologically rewarding.)

Bingo. I suspect this characterizes so many details within protocols. I think of it as the wild west of "transitional medicine" from a highly imperfect, classic, allopathic approach to a highly imperfect, novel, personalized approach. Both approaches have merits and downfalls. For me, meditation is the antidote that rescues me from the weeds and gets me back to calm and certain a life of reason