Feeling intimidated: Q's re: diet & inflammation markers

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DistinguishedHeathen
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Feeling intimidated: Q's re: diet & inflammation markers

Post by DistinguishedHeathen »

Hi everyone! So, after taking in Gundry and Bredesen's dietary recommendations, I'm freaking out a little. Has anyone here meaningfully lowered their A1C and other inflammation markers while still eating gluten, some red meat, and the occasional sweet?

I'm 37F, APOE3/4, just 2 lbs overweight and dropping, and a major foodie (living in NYC) with an unfortunate shellfish allergy and an equally unfortunate aversion to fish. Reading these protocols, it seems the only things I can safely eat for the rest of my days are nuts, berries, Omega 3 eggs, and cruciferous veggies. That itself feels like a major blow to my quality of life. So, I'm hoping to find a place that balances a significant lifestyle overhaul with room for a filet mignon, a piece of Korean fried chicken, and a macaron here and there without damning myself.

Here's what I can do and, indeed, AM doing:

* Cutting added sugar consumption to under 20 grams/day while allowing a 1x/week "splurge" of up to 50 grams
* Keeping total carbs to under 100 grams/day except for 1x/week "splurge" of up to 150 grams
* Daily IF of 18/6 or 22/2 with 2x yearly 4-day water fasts (already doing this for a couple of years)
* Minimizing gluten whenever possible (cutting out seitan and gluten wraps for instance)
* Loading up on cruciferous veg and berries (I already do because I love broccoli/brussels sprouts/kale/berries)
* Minimizing dairy, though still cooking with butter and drinking unsweetened kefir
* Busting my ass with daily bikram yoga and weight training (just started last week)
* Supplements to reduce inflammation and blood sugar like Omega-3 phospholipids, inulin, curcumin, adaptogens, and cinnamon

What I don't see myself doing:

* Cutting all red meat (I love a lean steak or pork chops 1x/week)
* Cutting chicken (a relatively significant staple of my diet, usually eating a small serving of 3-4 oz/day)
* Cutting all gluten/breads like pita, naan, etc. I don't eat cereal or rolls with dinner or anything like that
* Cutting all dairy, I'm not huge on cheese, but I love kefir, butter (though I do use olive oil more frequently), and a splash of milk
* Cutting all sugar (though I can reduce it to far below what most consume. I've never been a soda or juice drinker)

Has anyone else made these moderate changes and seen benefit on their bloodwork? Or does APOE4 cripple our tolerance for living in the land of plenty so much that we respond to even reasonably healthy diets with tons of inflammation no matter how much we work out or supplement?
Last edited by DistinguishedHeathen on Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Feeling intimidated: Q's re: diet & inflammation markers

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I'm a Gundry patient. He always says to do the best you can in your circumstances.

I'd prioritize as follows.

Avoid ultraprocessed food
Avoid seed oils
Avoid much refined sugar

Just these will do a lot.

If you do time restricted eating with a 10-8 hour eating window (or smaller) that ends at least 3 hours before bed and perhaps some periodic multiday extended fasts, that should stand you in good stead.

Eat as much whole food as possible.

One of the markers Gundry focuses on is Igf-1. He also quotes Valter Longo's work quite a bit. Gundry wants us to have Igf-1 optimally around 75, however in Longo's fasting mimicking diet (FMD) studies, the average participant had an Igf-1 around 195 and this dropped about 25% to around 150 (these numbers aren't exact, but are relatively correct). Gundry was ecstatic about this drop. Interestingly, when Gundry interviewed carnivore doc, Paul Saladino, Saladino said his Igf-1 was 120 (much better than the average Longo participant AFTER the FMD) . My sense is that chronically high insulin is a much bigger driver of Igf-1 than protein. So if I had to make a choice, I'd watch my processed carbs and not worry so much about the meat.
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Re: Feeling intimidated: Q's re: diet & inflammation markers

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Tincup wrote:I'm a Gundry patient. He always says to do the best you can in your circumstances.

I'd prioritize as follows.

Avoid ultraprocessed food
Avoid seed oils
Avoid much refined sugar

Just these will do a lot.

If you do time restricted eating with a 10-8 hour eating window (or smaller) that ends at least 3 hours before bed and perhaps some periodic multiday extended fasts, that should stand you in good stead.

Eat as much whole food as possible.

One of the markers Gundry focuses on is Igf-1. He also quotes Valter Longo's work quite a bit. Gundry wants us to have Igf-1 optimally around 75, however in Longo's fasting mimicking diet (FMD) studies, the average participant had an Igf-1 around 195 and this dropped about 25% to around 150 (these numbers aren't exact, but are relatively correct). Gundry was ecstatic about this drop. Interestingly, when Gundry interviewed carnivore doc, Paul Saladino, Saladino said his Igf-1 was 120 (much better than the average Longo participant AFTER the FMD) . My sense is that chronically high insulin is a much bigger driver of Igf-1 than protein. So if I had to make a choice, I'd watch my processed carbs and not worry so much about the meat.
This is hugely helpful, thank you. I'm lucky that long fasting periods are -- strangely -- a breeze for me (so much that my partner often complains when we go out for the day because I "forget" that we need to eat until it's almost dinner time). My new workout schedule is reinforcing my desire for clean, whole foods, which is really helpful. I've also dramatically dropped my sugar consumption by cutting it from places I don't miss it (coffee, sauces, etc.) and eating 90% dark chocolate to satisfy my daily craving. Never been a pasta lover or even a big bread eater, so reducing carbs far below the SAD isn't too hard unless I'm out with friends for dinner.

What I'm wondering now, given what I've ready about dairy and lectins, is if it would be better to replace all dairy with unsweetened oat milk, or, given the lectins in oats, is it just better to stick to grass-fed organic dairy for my coffee? Is there a good butter substitute or are most butter substitutes off limits? Moreover, are there any meat substitutes that fit Gundry's recommendations? I was a vegetarian for 14 years and loved my faux meats, but I know seitan is off-limits. I wonder what Gundry has to say about things like Quorn and other meat substitutes compared to grass-fed beef and organic chicken?

I can do the big, broad modifications (eating window, avoiding added sugars and most processed foods) relatively easily, but if there are some simple replacements I can do that would be better (alternatives to milk, butter, and meat specifically), I'll gladly add those in, too, because I doubt I'd miss them in my day-to-day.
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Re: Feeling intimidated: Q's re: diet & inflammation markers

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DistinguishedHeathen wrote:I wonder what Gundry has to say about things like Quorn and other meat substitutes compared to grass-fed beef and organic chicken?
Certain Quorn that doesn't have breading is OK. I'd have to look at his list to be sure, they also change the formulation over time.

Gundry limits meat because of methionine, which stimulates Igf-1 & mTOR. Also because of Neu5Gc, which is controversial.

Big thing is that 4's tend to react to sat fat, from a heart disease perspective. May not be an issue for you. One member here had a Gundry consult years ago. Her sdLDL (small dense LDL) was ~12 and Gundry's target was <30. Not an issue for her. If I eat a lot of sat fat, my sdLDL will skyrocket.

Is there early heart disease in your family, that you know of. I know you are an only child, but other relatives? If not, may not be a high priority. Unusual for females to have heart issues till after menopause.

I'm in the camp of rather eating real food than a manufactured substitute. Some of my friends here think it is imperative we get sat fat, so again controversial. What isn't controversial is keeping insulin in check.

There was a paper that Julie G linked in Dec 2014 (I could find it if I took enough time)? It showed that insulin sensitive 4's had 20% of the heart disease risk of 3's, while 4's who were metabolically challenged had 2-2.5x the risk. So an order of magnitude risk difference.
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Re: Feeling intimidated: Q's re: diet & inflammation markers

Post by DistinguishedHeathen »

Tincup wrote:
DistinguishedHeathen wrote:I wonder what Gundry has to say about things like Quorn and other meat substitutes compared to grass-fed beef and organic chicken?
Certain Quorn that doesn't have breading is OK. I'd have to look at his list to be sure, they also change the formulation over time.

Gundry limits meat because of methionine, which stimulates Igf-1 & mTOR. Also because of Neu5Gc, which is controversial.

Big thing is that 4's tend to react to sat fat, from a heart disease perspective. May not be an issue for you. One member here had a Gundry consult years ago. Her sdLDL (small dense LDL) was ~12 and Gundry's target was <30. Not an issue for her. If I eat a lot of sat fat, my sdLDL will skyrocket.

Is there early heart disease in your family, that you know of. I know you are an only child, but other relatives? If not, may not be a high priority. Unusual for females to have heart issues till after menopause.

I'm in the camp of rather eating real food than a manufactured substitute. Some of my friends here think it is imperative we get sat fat, so again controversial. What isn't controversial is keeping insulin in check.

There was a paper that Julie G linked in Dec 2014 (I could find it if I took enough time)? It showed that insulin sensitive 4's had 20% of the heart disease risk of 3's, while 4's who were metabolically challenged had 2-2.5x the risk. So an order of magnitude risk difference.
So, my maternal grandfather from whom my mom and I inherited the APOE4 (his mom is our sole family member with AD prior to my mom), had major heart disease. However, he also smoked for 55 years and ate bacon nearly every day of his life. He died at 85 due to pneumonia after being hospitalized for a lung biopsy. No AD.

My mom, however, has excellent heart health (despite her APOE4), but at 71, is slipping into AD (indeed, I'm leaving for Georgia tomorrow to attend her first visit with the gerontologist where I hope we can start her diagnostic journey). That said, while she never consciously restricted saturated fat, my mom was always a healthy eater who generally does not like meat or fatty food

So that leaves me in a weird place in terms of predicting risk. I am indeed an only child. Stranger still, though I have a copy of APOE4, my 23&Me also said I had a "33% lower risk of diabetes" compared to the average person due to my genetics and I'm not quite sure why.
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Re: Feeling intimidated: Q's re: diet & inflammation markers

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Good luck with the Dr. visit and your mother. I know how hard that can be, and many AD sufferers share the common trait of both not being aware of their deficits, and tending to get upset if anyone else suggests it. In my situation, there was never any type of chance to have a conversation along the lines of "Ok Mom, now that you have been diagnosed with AD, how should we plan out how we can care for you best." Everything was defiance and difficulty, any attempt to discuss the situation went very bad, and quickly. I hope your situation goes smoothly.
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Re: Feeling intimidated: Q's re: diet & inflammation markers

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Family Tree Guy wrote:Good luck with the Dr. visit and your mother. I know how hard that can be, and many AD sufferers share the common trait of both not being aware of their deficits, and tending to get upset if anyone else suggests it. In my situation, there was never any type of chance to have a conversation along the lines of "Ok Mom, now that you have been diagnosed with AD, how should we plan out how we can care for you best." Everything was defiance and difficulty, any attempt to discuss the situation went very bad, and quickly. I hope your situation goes smoothly.
Thank you. Yeah, I'm in for a VERY rough ride. Mom has Borderline Personality Disorder and has all but threatened to disown me if I "somehow get a doctor to diagnose her" with AD. So, the visit is under the auspices of treating her osteoporosis (which is indeed half the reason for the visit). I fear she will never forgive me for the diagnosis to come, but I know I can't do anything about her quality of life now or moving forward without one.
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Re: Feeling intimidated: Q's re: diet & inflammation markers

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For DistinguishedHeathen:

I don't know if this will help but for the last year we have been taking care of my mother in law who is 90. She, like other older people fear they are going into dementia or worse even though they are not showing the definite signs of AD. Until I learned about the Bredesen protocol I had been cobbling together a program based on the many, many, sources of information about nutrition and dementia. I found that rather than just dropping the Bredesen protocol on them like a bomb it's working better to apply it to them without getting them involved in trying to understand the technical details. So when you give them supplements you say it'll help your memory, it'll help you not feel dizzy or have a headache, etc. etc. but you'll be giving them the supplements you've calculated they need without telling them that's what you're doing. It's worked pretty well with our situation.
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Re: Feeling intimidated: Q's re: diet & inflammation markers

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I wanted to add that most of the time you may be making most of the food decisions for them, at least cooking for them and serving them. So it's easy to select the items on the Bredesen protocol without them knowing it's part of a system to prevent or reverse AD or dementia.
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