Urination frequency and sleep disruption

[Moonstone]

Hello,
I'm new here and am writing in regard to my mother. Have been working through the Bredesen protocol with a trained doctor for the past year but can't seem to solve the problem of urinary urgency and frequency disrupting sleep (up 3-4 times a night to go to the bathroom, and then can't go back to sleep). Also, some issues with urinary incontinence due to the urgency. This issue paired with sleep disruption seems to be a major roadblock in progress. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
-- Kind regards

[RAJ64]

Hello,
I'm new here and am writing in regard to my mother. Have been working through the Bredesen protocol with a trained doctor for the past year but can't seem to solve the problem of urinary urgency and frequency disrupting sleep (up 3-4 times a night to go to the bathroom, and then can't go back to sleep). Also, some issues with urinary incontinence due to the urgency. This issue paired with sleep disruption seems to be a major roadblock in progress. Any thoughts would be appreciated. -- Kind regards

Hello Moonstone, and welcome to the forum!

Have you ruled out urinary tract infection? That would be the first order of business. If you are seeing a general practitioner, maybe a referral to a urologist would be helpful. You could ask your healthcare provider about D-mannose which has been used to treat the symptoms you mention. Do the symptoms occur only at night? With aging comes a reduced capacity to concentrate urine. This is also something a urologist might address.

Acidic foods can irritate the bladder. My dad (age 83) has increased frequency and urgency with coffee and other acidic foods like tomato. If he has coffee late in the afternoon it can definitely keep him awake at night. Sometimes he can tolerate one or the other, but a cumulative dose of acidic foods wreaks havoc on his bladder.

Dad also lowered the light bulb intensity in his bathroom. That helped. There is a safety concern with older folks which makes it hard to find a balance between not getting too awake and not causing safety hazards with low light. Would quiet music help to relax for getting back to sleep?

Just a few thoughts for you. I helped take care of my mom who had dementia and now am helping my dad through his golden years. Sleep at night is so important for both the parent and the caregiver!

Warmly,
Rachel

[Moonstone]

Hi Rachel,

I greatly appreciate your reply. There seems to be something going on beyond a urinary tract infection, which she's been treated for a few times with antibiotics; that hasn't produced significant improvement in her urinary issues. The issues occur both at night and during the day, but at night is the most troublesome since it disrupts her sleep so badly.

I appreciate the tip on the D-mannose. We will check into that. I also appreciate the tips on minimizing acidic foods and the sleep-enhancing strategies like light considerations and music. Finding a functional medicine-minded urologist would also be helpful, if there are such experts out there. We're not particularly interested in pharmaceutical solutions with the side effects that may accompany them.

King regards,
Moonstone

[RAJ64]

Hi Rachel,

I greatly appreciate your reply. There seems to be something going on beyond a urinary tract infection, which she's been treated for a few times with antibiotics; that hasn't produced significant improvement in her urinary issues. The issues occur both at night and during the day, but at night is the most troublesome since it disrupts her sleep so badly.

I appreciate the tip on the D-mannose....Finding a functional medicine-minded urologist would also be helpful, if there are such experts out there. We're not particularly interested in pharmaceutical solutions with the side effects that may accompany them.

King regards,
Moonstone

Moonstone, since you mentioned previous treatment for UTI with antibiotics, it is possible the bacteria are developing resistance to them. D-mannose makes the bacteria slippery so they will not colonize as readily. It has been a life saver for a friend of mine who suffered with recurring UTIs for years. She has been free of them now for two years using D-mannose prophylactically per the urologist’s recommendation. He practices in NY if that would be helpful to know. Could your primary care Bredesen trained doctor help you find an integrative/holistic urologist?

I totally understand wanting to avoid pharmaceuticals as much as possible.

Here are two links that might be helpful as you continue your research:

An article about D-mannose and UTI:

https://chriskresser.com/treat-and-prev ... out-drugs/

Functional Medicine practitioner search tool:

https://www.ifm.org/find-a-practitioner/

Warmly,
Rachel

[Moonstone]

Bless you, Rachel!!

I will read up on D-mannose, as that sounds to be very promising. Thank you for sharing your invaluable insights, experience, and resources.

I am aware of the functional medicine practitioner search tool, but living in a rural area makes this difficult. But if I find the right practitioner, perhaps telemedicine will be an option.

Kind regards,
Moonstone

[Moonstone]

Hello again, Rachel,

I have one question about the D-mannose -- I'm wondering if your friend takes it as a powder dissolved in water/liquid or as a whole capsule? Just wondering if the powder form might be more effective, or maybe there's no difference?

It looks like there's some good science in PubMed that supports use of D-mannose for UTIs:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32972899/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32497610/

Thank you!
Moonstone

[carrie]

Hello,
I'm new here and am writing in regard to my mother. Have been working through the Bredesen protocol with a trained doctor for the past year but can't seem to solve the problem of urinary urgency and frequency disrupting sleep (up 3-4 times a night to go to the bathroom, and then can't go back to sleep). Also, some issues with urinary incontinence due to the urgency. This issue paired with sleep disruption seems to be a major roadblock in progress. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
-- Kind regards

HI Moonstone!

Caring for aging parents is incredibly difficult. I am so sorry to hear your mom is suffering.

I did a search on the forum for nocturia and found a few
posts that may help in your research.

In case you want to do more customized searches, the How-to Guide provides great tips on navigating the forum.

When you have time to explore the site further, you might consider starting with the Primer. This post was written by a physician member of the community.

A warm welcome to the ApoE4 community. If you need help navigating the site, please don't hesitate to reach out.

Hoping you find answers soon that will provide both of you with some relief.
Carrie

[RAJ64]

Hello again, Rachel, I have one question about the D-mannose -- I'm wondering if your friend takes it as a powder dissolved in water/liquid or as a whole capsule? Just wondering if the powder form might be more effective, or maybe there's no difference?

You’re welcome, Moonstone.

My friend takes capsules as have my dad, with his excitable bladder issues, and husband who has kidney stone attacks occasionally. I do not think there would be any difference in efficacy between capsules or powder form. If swallowing capsules is a challenge, then the powder form would be helpful in that case. The only side effect I noted was in my husband who had loose stools when he took more than two 500 mg capsules a day during an acute kidney stone attack. My dad doesn’t have any side effects from two or three per day.

D-mannose is a sugar compound in cranberry so is relatively low risk as far as supplements go. However, an untreated UTI is high risk for complications which can progress to urinary sepsis, so it is advisable to work with a provider who will monitor the status of active infection. Running a urine culture is a routine lab test any general practitioner can order. If your mom has signs and symptoms of UTI such as fever, bladder or lower back pain, she should have that checked out asap.

Thank you for the Pubmed articles. I knew they were out there, but ran out of time to find and post them for you today.

Please feel free to post again and let us know how your mom is doing, if you would like to. Hopefully you can get to the bottom of these bothersome symptoms and help mom onto a better path of restful sleep soon!

Warmly,
Rachel

[Moonstone]

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Rachel!

It's good to know the capsules are effective, as that may be easier to maintain long term. Thanks also for the note on possible side effects; I saw similar reports in the studies. This will be good timing to try this, as she's just finishing an antibiotic for a UTI.

Best,
Moonstone

[Tincup]

Hello,
can't seem to solve the problem of urinary urgency and frequency disrupting sleep (up 3-4 times a night to go to the bathroom, and then can't go back to sleep). Also, some issues with urinary incontinence due to the urgency.

A couple of thoughts - hyperinsulinemia, sleep apnea, breathing- CO2 tolerance.

On the breathing/CO2 tolerance, I put a lot of references in this post. Simply taping the mouth at night (something I've done for years) might help with both mild/moderate apnea and improve CO2 tolerance. A couple of references from that post:

Book Sleep with Buteyko (Buteyko was a Russian doctor who did a lot of work on this)

This may sound crazy, but tape your mouth at night to make sure you breathe through your nose. Here is tape I've used for years.
Carol, the proprietress of the correct breathing site will do remote instruction