Is it okay to have glucose spikes if I start cycling out of ketosis to have two higher carb days (or more) per week?

[TheBrain]

In the past, I've occasionally tried adding in more carbs, but I've experienced glucose spikes. I haven't tried lately. Going on a ketogenic resolved my hypoglycemia (and hence, my insulin resistance). I'm nervous about adding more carbs into my diet.

I recently did a Microbiome Labs' BiomeFx stool test, which uses whole genome sequencing to evaluate stool samples. I got a ton of information from the BiomeFx report and have just started working with a holistic healthcare practitioner (Kelly) to heal my gut. I've been unable to heal my gut on my own.

(If you want to check out BiomeFx, you can find a sample report, interpretation guide, report recommendations, and short videos here: https://www.biomefx.com/education. If you click View All at the bottom of the page, you’ll be taken to all of their BiomeFx videos on YouTube.)

Due to my BiomeRx results, Kelly is recommending I cycle in and out of ketosis. She's recommending I alternate between two days on the ketogenic diet and two higher healthy carb days. (I suspect I'll be lucky to tolerate one or two days of higher carbs per week.) She's also suggesting I have a few days per week when I eat no animal meat due to the saturated fat content it contains.

BiomeFx checks for a relatively long list of pathogens. For me, only one was high: Bilophila wadsworthia (1.22 in a reference range of 0.05 - 0.27). In fact, Kelly referred to this pathogen as being "out of control" high. This pathogen being high is a result of my high-fat diet (bile feeds this pathogen) and can contribute to blood sugar issues.

In addition, my Proteobacteria (a phylum of bacteria) was too high. Proteobacteria thrive on saturated fat. I have to admit to consuming more saturated fat than usual over the past several months, in the form of full-fat coconut ice cream and ghee.

Another reason Kelly recommends I eat more healthy carbs (as well as take prebiotic supplements) is to feed my keystone species, which are foundational for good health. Out of 9 keystone species, I have 8 that are either low or "not detected." I have one that's high, which is fine. She believes that feeding my keystone species and getting them in a good range will have more impact on my health than anything else I do.

I recently heard someone say, "You have to choose between your brain or your gut." I hope that's untrue, and I can find a good balance that works for my body. Clearly, my current ketogenic diet is harming my gut microbiome, but my diet with lots of fat gives me lots of calories, which helps me stabilize my BMI at 18.

I'd appreciate an answer to my question in the Subject line and any recommendations for cycling in and out of ketosis. If you know of a great book that covers this topic, please let me know. I searched the forum for information and just found references to the topic but not the details. Our wiki on the ketogenic diet does have a link to: https://www.livestrong.com/article/5537 ... rb-cycling. This is a good start but doesn't answer my main question.

[floramaria]

In the past, I've occasionally tried adding in more carbs, but I've experienced glucose spikes. I haven't tried lately. Going on a ketogenic resolved my hypoglycemia (and hence, my insulin resistance). I'm nervous about adding more carbs into my diet.
.

Hi,TheBrain, it seems that you and I are on the the same pathway, trying to balance providing food for healthy bacteria to support our gut health and trying to have a good level of ketosis for optimal brain health. Plus there is a lot evidence that a healthy microbiome is essential for a healthy brain so those two are really one! I don’t have any resources to share, only my own experience.

Way back when, you introduced me to Kiran Krishnan and The Microbiome Series on Rebel Health Tribe. I haven’t tried the BiomeFx test because I had already ordered a Viome test earlier this year. As someone who has been actively trying to nurture the healthy bacteria by eating a lot of fiber and resistant starches, eating fermented food every day and regularly taking probiotics (including MegaSpore) I was surprised and very disappointed to learn that my microbiome diversity, according to Viome, was extremely low, in the 11th percentile. I have heard Kiran Krishnan say that high fat diets are bad for the microbiome. He did respond directly to a question I submitted about whether plant based keto would also undermine the microbiome and he said he thought it would not, but here I am with my pathetic 11% diversity .

My Viome Super Foods list, which they suggest I eat as much of as possible, includes many foods I have avoided entirely,or almost entirely, as I have followed a high plant-food form of ketogenic diet for several years. Many legumes ( black-eyed peas, chickpeas, Navy beans) and fruits (apples,Guavas, papayas) and oats will supposedly help re-balance my Microbiome. My list of foods to enjoy is also rich in “anti-keto” food, with more tropical fruits and every grain on the planet. (and ostrich. Ostrich, really?)

But here is what surprised me, and hopefully you may find this is true for you as well: I began adding small amounts of many of these foods, even sprouted rye and sprouted wheat ( from my Enjoy list) and while I don’t know yet if this has improved my microbiome diversity, definitely these dietary changes have not thrown me out of ketosis for long . I have been adding small amounts of things like oats...maybe just 1/4-1/3 C ...and similar small quantities of the other foods , like a 1/4 of beans added to my salad. I can eat those and be in ketosis a few hours later. My theory is that now that I am keto-adapted, I can swing In and out of ketosis easily. My diet now is so much looser than when I was initially trying (struggling) to get my ketones up I to the .5- 1.5 range, and my ketones are always in that range. At least they are in that range whenever I test.

I’ll be really interested to know if now that you have been keto-adapted for so long , you might also find that diversifying your diet with small helpings of carbs no longer spikes your glucose. Please let me know!

Your fellow traveler to microbiome well-being.

[TheBrain]

Hi,TheBrain, it seems that you and I are on the the same pathway, trying to balance providing food for healthy bacteria to support our gut health and trying to have a good level of ketosis for optimal brain health. Plus there is a lot evidence that a healthy microbiome is essential for a healthy brain so those two are really one! I don’t have any resources to share, only my own experience.

Hi floramaria, my fellow traveler to microbiome well-being,

Thank you for sharing your experience. It's wonderful that with your food changes, you've discovered that you can easily swing in and out of ketosis. So far, I've been too chicken to try adding in higher carbs, but I'm mustering the courage. I'll be meeting with Kelly (my gut health expert/coach) on Thursday to discuss food. To get me started, I might hire her to come up with my first meal plan (on top of what I've already paid her up front). Or maybe that price will motivate me to JUST DO IT!

I can't eat any gluten, so any of the gluten grains are out for me. I'm also sensitive to oats (even if they are certified gluten free). So I've been thinking about adding lentils and sweet potatoes to start, in small amounts (probably 1/4 cup), but I'm open to Kelly's suggestions. I'll let you know either way if making such additions spikes my glucose.

I was shocked to learn that I have only 132 species in my gut microbiome. That puts me in the middle of the Healthy US population range, but that makes me question how healthy this population really is. My diversity index for my 132 species is 6.08, but I'd ideally be in the 8–10 range.

I hope your efforts pay off with improvements in your gut microbiome diversity. Whenever you retest, please report back. Good luck with your continued efforts! And if you try ostrich, let me know if it tastes like chicken!