Dale Bredesen, and I probably agree to disagree on this but I think I think we just have to be careful with choline. Okay?
is it just the TMAO angle that Gundry is concerned about with choline supplementation? (FWIW, there are other considerations.) Re, TMAO, see what we concluded in Dr. Bredesen's recent book.
Some studies have suggested that eating red meat raises TMAO, which in turn increases the risk for heart disease, cancer, and all-cause mortality. However, the epidemiological evidence is inconsistent and virtually disappears when kidney disease and insulin resistance are considered as contributing factors. Additionally, none of these studies takes into account the health of the microbiome (where TMAO originates) and may under- estimate the healthy user bias—the concept that those who eschew red meat may have overall healthier habits. We suspect that the small amount of unprocessed clean animal protein we recommend in the context of a heavily plant-based diet and healthy lifestyle will minimize the potential negative effect of TMAO.
Dale Bredesen, and I probably agree to disagree on this but I think I think we just have to be careful with choline. Okay?
is it just the TMAO angle that Gundry is concerned about with choline supplementation? (FWIW, there are other considerations.) Re, TMAO, see what we concluded in Dr. Bredesen's recent book.
Some studies have suggested that eating red meat raises TMAO, which in turn increases the risk for heart disease, cancer, and all-cause mortality. However, the epidemiological evidence is inconsistent and virtually disappears when kidney disease and insulin resistance are considered as contributing factors. Additionally, none of these studies takes into account the health of the microbiome (where TMAO originates) and may under- estimate the healthy user bias—the concept that those who eschew red meat may have overall healthier habits. We suspect that the small amount of unprocessed clean animal protein we recommend in the context of a heavily plant-based diet and healthy lifestyle will minimize the potential negative effect of TMAO.
Julie, he's uncertain about TMAO. Again, from a machine transcript:
• 1:01:26 - 1:01:33
It'll be interesting both of you to see what tmao does getting rid of eggs.
• 1:01:36 - 1:01:37
Yeah.
• 1:01:43 - 1:01:50
And did you have any fish before the test? No, no, that's right (we'd been vegan for 4 days before the test).
• 1:01:54 - 1:02:24
So I think I've told you I have to long-term vegans are in their 70s who run tmaos of a hundred and fifty. Seriously and I've sent their results off to Cleveland Clinic and talked to them. They said well that's just wrong, they're not vegan. So I shot back, look these are good Adventists, you know, I've known these people for like 15 years and they'd be the last people who would cheat.
• 1:02:24 - 1:02:54
I would not believe so. There's more to tmao than meets the eye. I'm just not very impressed with it.
Dr Gundry took me off of all choline supplements and all egg yokes when my TMAO went up. I had started them 2 years prior with Bredesen protocol, while eating 1 whole egg every other day. Don't really have anything to add as Dr Gundry's office has never asked me to reschedule after Jan 2020 and Covid and I am now relying on my FP for guidance.
To give you a sense of how much TMAO is produced from 500 mg daily phosphatidyl choline, one might look at my case: 100% plant based, hence no gut production of TMAO, and my TMAO from choline supplementation alone is 2.2 uM (< 6.2 uM). I am wondering if Gundry's patients weren't also eating lots of animal foods along with supplementing?
