AD Types 4 & 5

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
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SimonF
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AD Types 4 & 5

Post by SimonF »

Hi there,

I'm new to the forum, having dived into Dr. Bredesen's work in the last couple months of 2020.

A particular area of interest of mine is the secondary effects of TBI. For that reason, I am particularly interested in Type 5 (traumatic) & Type 4 (vascular; particularly in the context that "vascular disease is omnipresent in type 5").

As the Programme is a bit light on the detail for Types 4 & 5, does anyone know if this is because it is still a relatively new area of research for Dr. Bredesen & his team? Presumably, the Programme would work similar to treatment for other types, and any specific amendments would be based on the test results?

If anyone has any additional information on Types 4 or 5, including previous posts on this forum, I would be very interested in hearing about them.

Best wishes,

Simon
birdie18
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Re: AD Types 4 & 5

Post by birdie18 »

SimonF wrote:... interest in the secondary effects of TBI... especially Type 5 (traumatic) & Type 4 (vascular... "vascular disease is omnipresent in type 5").
As the Programme is a bit light on the detail for Types 4 & 5, does anyone know if this is because it is still a relatively new area of research for Dr. Bredesen & his team? Presumably, the Programme would work similar to treatment for other types, and any specific amendments would be based on the test results?
Hi Simon,
I am so glad you raised the question about traumatic brain injury or concussion as it's one I've been curious about. Likely, we will see some healthy conversation on this important topic. It sounds like you are already familiar with TBI treatment considerations but want to understand it in the context of apoE4 AD risk factors. Is that true?

An excellent teacher about brain health is Datis Kharrazian. See: Traumatic Brain Injury and the Effect on the Brain-Gut AxisSeptember 2015Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine 21 Suppl 3:28-32. Or see drKnews.com.

Welcome to apoE4.info! There is an information section or Wiki that might prove useful. Do check it out if you have not already done so. As you learn more, I hope you will share findings with this community. You can refer to the How-to page for best practices on posting and tools used to navigate this site. Don't overlook the Forum page rich with Our Stories and feel free to add your own, if you are so moved.

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Last edited by birdie18 on Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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floramaria
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Re: AD Types 4 & 5

Post by floramaria »

SimonF wrote:Hi there,
A particular area of interest of mine is the secondary effects of TBI. For that reason, I am particularly interested in Type 5 (traumatic) & Type 4 (vascular; particularly in the context that "vascular disease is omnipresent in type 5").

As the Programme is a bit light on the detail for Types 4 & 5, does anyone know if this is because it is still a relatively new area of research for Dr. Bredesen & his team? Presumably, the Programme would work similar to treatment for other types, and any specific amendments would be based on the test results?

If anyone has any additional information on Types 4 or 5, including previous posts on this forum, I would be very interested in hearing about them.

Best wishes,

Simon
Hi Simon, While you are waiting for specific answers to your question, you might find reading the Primer helpful, especially section 12 where the writer, who is a physician herself, discusses traumatic brain injury. She suffered from severe concussions and recovered completely; she explains how she did that. Even though you are familiar with Dr. Bredesen’s work, you may find the entire primer to be interesting. It is packed with valuable information.
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SimonF
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Re: AD Types 4 & 5

Post by SimonF »

Thanks birdie18 & floramaria for your replies and useful links. We really are starting to understand the importance of the gut-brain axis. I was also amazed at how exercise had such a powerful effect in Stavia's recovery.

As you say birdie18, I am looking forward to hopefully seeing some healthy conversation on this important topic!
NF52
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Re: AD Types 4 & 5

Post by NF52 »

SimonF wrote:...A particular area of interest of mine is the secondary effects of TBI. For that reason, I am particularly interested in Type 5 (traumatic) & Type 4 (vascular; particularly in the context that "vascular disease is omnipresent in type 5").

As the Programme is a bit light on the detail for Types 4 & 5, does anyone know if this is because it is still a relatively new area of research for Dr. Bredesen & his team? Presumably, the Programme would work similar to treatment for other types, and any specific amendments would be based on the test results? ...
Simon
Welcome, Simon!

One way to think about the "types" of Alzheimer's is to look at the key drivers of brain pathology that may occur years to decades before observed cognitive impairment and try to prevent, reverse or ameliorate those. Of the various types, a good argument can be made that "trauma" is the most difficult to study, both because it may happen decades before the risk of Alzheimer's can be determined, and because records from decades ago are often very sketchy, with limited use of either brain scans or extensive neuropsychological tests.

I was fortunate to work for several years with students returning to school after a TBI and their families and to provide training to teachers and school administrators on how amazingly diverse are their strengths and needs. That same diversity makes it challenging for researchers to study the long-term effects of people who have experienced a TBI. Just a few of the issues are the observed differences in severity and ability to predict immediate effects between a mild concussion or series of repetitive concussive impacts (like being a footballer in the UK) versus exposure to a blast injury from an IED on the battlefield, to a TBI in a car crash or as a pedestrian, to a fall that an elderly frail person may have late in life that causes a a brain bleed.

What seems evident is that statistics are not very useful for any one individual in this area right now. Based on your post, I would guess that you continue to enjoy excellent thinking skills and are intellectually curious--both indicators of "brain reserve" (innate capacity of neurons and synapses) "brain resilience" (the ability of brains to find work-arounds for TBI and vascular injuries) and "cognitive reserve" (the interplay between early life stimulation, including education, mid-life occupational challenges and healthy lifestyle and possibly later-life engagement in personally meaningful and challenging activities. All should give you reason to be hopeful about the future.

Based on your spelling of "programme", I'm going to guess that you're living in the UK. If so, you may be interested in a study that has been have been recruiting people ages 40-59 in the London area, Edinburgh and Dublin to study possible risk factors for later-life dementia. They are "paused" now because of COVID-19, but are likely to resume once vaccinations are up and cases are down. (Fingers crossed for the world on that one.) Here's a link to their site, which offers some videos for folks to view, and info on the study: PREVENT Dementia UK They are specifically recruiting for people with a history of mild TBI, according to a brief abstract about a study of 109 people in West London, which found that more severe TBI was associated with more changes to the white matter of the brain, but not more repetitive TBI, but that the numbers of people studied were too small to draw conclusions, especially when considering factors post-TBI that could change the long-term impact of any injury.

Vascular dementia is often found in people with a diagnosis of very late-life dementia (ages 80 and up),, according to some recent presentations at the Alzheimer's Association International Conference. In fact, it's now suspected that many people diagnosed after brief screenings as having "Alzheimer's" may have "mixed dementia of the Alzheimers and vascular type". Large population studies like the FINGER study in FInland and the POINTER studies in Europe, the UK, US and Australia are finding strong evidence that control of high blood pressure in mid-life and beyond through lifestyle or medication may greatly reduce the incidence of both vascular and Alzheimer's dementia.

So that was a lot to share!! Apologies if it's overwhelming. Personally, I find the Strategies offered in Stavia's PRIMER to be a great way to make small, but important changes rather than try "all of the above" approach. Feel free to share more of your specific TBI/vascular concerns. And stay safe in whatever lovely corner of the world you find yourself in 2021!
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SimonF
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Re: AD Types 4 & 5

Post by SimonF »

NF52 wrote: Just a few of the issues are the observed differences in severity and ability to predict immediate effects between a mild concussion or series of repetitive concussive impacts (like being a footballer in the UK) versus exposure to a blast injury from an IED on the battlefield, to a TBI in a car crash or as a pedestrian, to a fall that an elderly frail person may have late in life that causes a a brain bleed.
Thanks for all of the information NF52. Highlighting one point in particular, I find that the above rings very true. It reminds me of the Father of Stress Research, Hans Selye's theory on adaptation - bodies seem to adjust differently to the traumatic stress of a brain injury (although severity & number of head injuries obviously are critical factors).

Good sleuthing skills too - I do indeed live in the UK! Top work also for using the word "footballer" in the UK context :) Unfortunately, for my sins, I played rugby for 24 years of my life, and the narrative on head knocks in this sport needs to be progressed to the 21st century. Some ex-professionals have recently announced a legal case against the sport's authorities (reminiscent of the NFL players' legal action), and this is prompting a much-needed debate in the sport.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55201237

However, there is a lack of dialogue in the media about any potential that these ex-players might have to improve their cognitive states. This is where I believe pioneers in America are challenging the status quo (Daniel Amen, Mark Gordon, & indeed Dale Bredesen).

PS. If anyone has time to watch the 2 videos in the bbc link, highlighting two players' current states, I highly recommend viewing them.
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