I need help with KETO, please

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Tincup
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Re: I need help with KETO, please

Post by Tincup »

Welcome davidrluck!

What is your reason or objective for keto?

What is your fasting insulin, glucose HbA1C?

Some thin folks can be TOFI (thin outside fat inside). This was the case of Julie G, our President. Her BMI was ~19.5, yet she had insulin resistance. Today, she has a BMI in the 18's, exercises, fasts 16 hours a day and can test > 1.0 mmol/L BHB, so it is possible. Ketone production (assuming no unusual genetics) is inversely correlated with insulin production.

If you describe yourselves more thoroughly, we might be able to offer more insight.
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Re: I need help with KETO, please

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davidrluck wrote:We need help with Keto, too! My wife is apoe4 positive (heterozygous). So we started the Mito diet (recommended by the Institute of Functional Medicine) a year ago. After about 6 months of no ketosis, we started really cutting out the carbs and politely lost some weight. Now my BMI is 19.8 and hers is 19.2. We haven't really started fasting longer than 12 hours yet because we want to gain weight. Everything we read about Keto diet is "Lose weight". What if you want to gain? Can you eat two meals a day and gain weight?
Hi davidrluck! Glad you are enjoying the discussion!

What I've noticed with Keto - get ready to have some fun documenting your Keto experiment! :D Your wife may even need a different plan. Testing and documenting can be really helpful to make sure you are in ketosis and not just cutting calories and food quantity. How do you feel overall? How active are you? Everyone is going to be different. I've seen people maintain muscle mass and weight even with more fats and lots of fasting, and then other people can handle an increase in either quality protein or non-starchy carbs. Some people can stay in ketosis for long periods, and others need to go in and out as needed, but they have gotten themselves to a point of metabolic flexibility. With Intermittent Fasting you may be able to add more food but still remain in ketosis.

I honestly freaked my doctor out because I really increased my good fats and he felt that was way too many calories! It's been my only way to maintain muscle mass, strength, and brain power. My boyfriend is more active than I am, but he can't increase his fats to my level or he starts to gain weight.

There is an extensive Wiki topic on Ketosis and Ketogenic Diet that you may find helpful. There are many links to additional resources in that Wiki! If you'd like to research additional information about the APOE-ε4 allele, we also recommend the Primer. It's authored by a member physician who carries two copies of the APOE-ε4 allele, the Primer thread offers accessible science background and prioritized, sensible preventative measures.

Keep us posted on any insights you find with Keto. I know others can benefit from the information.

- Melissa
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Re: I need help with KETO, please

Post by davidrluck »

Thanks for the replies!
Tincup - objective is reversal of mild cognitive decline. We are following the Bredesen Protocol with MD supervision. Daily exercise 50 min 5 days/week, mostly aerobic, beginning to work on strength training. We lost a lot of muscle mass in the last year and we are both weak. Glucose 92, A1C 5.3.

Nerdymel23 - how did you increase your good fats? What would be your first meal after fast? Did your HDL and cholesterol spike? Slight problem here: my wife doesn't like fish. I am doing great on smash fish salads.

David
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Re: I need help with KETO, please

Post by nerdymel23 »

davidrluck wrote:
Nerdymel23 - how did you increase your good fats? What would be your first meal after fast? Did your HDL and cholesterol spike? Slight problem here: my wife doesn't like fish. I am doing great on smash fish salads.

David
Hi David,

I went back through the Mito Food Plan guides for a refresher. Those macro ratios was how I started - 60F/20P/20C. It took an adjustment mentally at first to be okay with consuming that high of a fat content even good quality fats. I know when I started out I mostly cut carbs and I ended up hangry. Have you gone through the Weekly Food & Recipe Planner for the Mito Food Plan?

They mention in the Mito Food plan that people can go from anywhere to 20 carbs - 80 carbs. It's fascinating how we are all different! I have a feeling my slow genetic pathways play a part in this.

Before I started Keto, I was in pretty poor health and my HDL was low with high triglycerides, and high CRP. What I learned from some of the protocols like Wahls and Bredesen was I still needed to focus on a nutrient dense Keto approach. I increased my intake of olive oil, olives, avocados, unsweetened coconut milk, ghee, and I used Brain Octane (MCT oil). I focused on foods almost a match to the therapeutic foods highlighted in the Mito Food Plan. Whatever I ate had to have the fat included. I also took out fruits for awhile. I'm 3/4 so I know the warning on too much saturated fats, but my numbers are now in the Bredesen Protocol optimal range and I feel better. Something worked!

I hope you and your wife can have more fun exploring! Keep us posted!
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Re: I need help with KETO, please

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davidrluck wrote:Thanks for the replies!
Tincup - objective is reversal of mild cognitive decline. We are following the Bredesen Protocol with MD supervision. Daily exercise 50 min 5 days/week, mostly aerobic, beginning to work on strength training. We lost a lot of muscle mass in the last year and we are both weak. Glucose 92, A1C 5.3.
Have some thoughts, have a busy weekend, will post in a few days.
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Re: I need help with KETO, please

Post by davidrluck »

Hi Nerdymel23,

You mentioned the warnings concerning saturated fats for 3/4's. What are the problems that can develop?
How do I use the clever quote feature of the website that you and Tincup use? I can't figure that out either.

David
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Re: I need help with KETO, please

Post by NF52 »

Nerdymel23 wrote:
davidrluck wrote:Hi Nerdymel23,

You mentioned the warnings concerning saturated fats for 3/4's. What are the problems that can develop?
How do I use the clever quote feature of the website that you and Tincup use? I can't figure that out either.

David
Hi David!
I'm copying Nerdymel23 [Melissa] in on this great question and will also explain the "quaint" feature of Word Press quoting!

To quote someone so that they get an email notification, first find the post they made. Then look in the upper right-hand corner of that post for the quotation mark icon.

Click on that icon and the entire post will come over to a "posting/editing" page. You can delete some of the text if it's a long post the same way you delete text on any document--as long as you keep the beginning and ending brackets with the word "quote" in them.

Here's a screen-shot explanation of how to do it from our handy How-To Wiki: How to use quotes
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Re: I need help with KETO, please

Post by floramaria »

davidrluck wrote:Hi Nerdymel23,

You mentioned the warnings concerning saturated fats for 3/4's. What are the problems that can develop?
How do I use the clever quote feature of the website that you and Tincup use? I can't figure that out either.

David

Hi David, while you are waiting to hear from Nerdyme123, Insuggest a look at the section of the Primer on lipids. The Primer was written by a physician member, and includes a huge amount of very useful information on ApoE4 . If you read this section of what the Primer viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1418&start=10#p15813, you’ll have a good overview of lipids and the ApoE4 allele. The section includes further links to even more info on the topic. As Stavia, the author, acknowledges, the area of saturated fats is controversial.
There is a good bit of back and forth about the dangers /or not of saturated fats on various threads. It is a to[ic that is discussed alot! If you are interested in reading some of the posts, reflecting different opinions, you can type saturated fats into Search, using the magnifying glass to the left of your user name.
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Re: I need help with KETO, please

Post by nerdymel23 »

davidrluck wrote:Hi Nerdymel23,

You mentioned the warnings concerning saturated fats for 3/4's. What are the problems that can develop?
How do I use the clever quote feature of the website that you and Tincup use? I can't figure that out either.

David
Thank you floramaria and NF52 for your help here!

Hi David,

The thread floramaria shared is super helpful and has a lot of information. It's complex as the Primer thread demonstrates. I was also browsing the Wiki section Cholesterol, Lipids and Treatments, including statins to find some resource links.

Doctors told me I needed to keep track of my cholesterol numbers with consuming so much fat. They told me the numbers would be too high. I personally haven't had any issues yet as I run my blood test. I also had to make sure my Omega 3/6 ratios were proper too. I'm still learning with you on all the lipids and fats conversations. ;)
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