A strange tale on supplemtation

[Janpeter]

Some of you may know that I'm travelling Asia for a few months. So here is a tale part wonderous, part downright hair raising scary.
As I started my trip about 90 days ago first visiting family in Germany and Switzerland I brought with me "all" my supplements in which I had put great faith in. Amongst my regimen was SAM e, ashwaganda, bacopa, vinpocetine,
L-Tryptophan, astaxanthin, PS, Gingko, and rohdiola. In addition I was eating a bar of Dark Chocolate a day.

Unbeknownst to me I had inadvertently created a slow building supplemental "ecstasy" concoction. I spent many weeks in a slowly increased state of deep bliss, connectedness, and intense need to express my heart and thoughts. Family and friends commented about my new openness and "euphoria". So I happily went on with this for weeks...thinking it was my new found freedom that was causing this "sense of bliss."
So in Mid October I set off on my Asia trip...starting in Chaing Mai Thailand. Being alone I started communicating with a few special people online. The intensity of these communications and with people I met ( started to approach anyone who might even remotely look like wanting to talk)
Increasingly became more intense...( I think there was a lot of head scratching going on). The final days I was in a full "manic state" not sleeping and with non stop profound thoughts going through my head.
Slowly it started to dawn on me that something was maybe wrong. Then one evening I started to feel really strange and my throat began closing up...I took myself to the hospital. They thought I was having a severe allergic reaction...so I was put on huge doses of intravenous Benadryl and sedated. Next morning after getting some sleep finally, I felt better and checked out. Of course I took my daily supplement regime...God forbid I miss a day!
Feeling stressed...and manic again, I decided to leave the city to a nature retreat 1 hour outside Chaing Mai. I checked in already feeling weirdly anxious. As I tried to sleep my mind went into a total panic / manic mode. I realized with heart pounding clarity that something was really wrong...my legs at this time were severely cramping up...and I got a serious case of the "shakes". I grabbed my I Pad and went to the lobby, frantically I started looking up symptoms...then it hit me...I vaguely recalled reading about too much serotonin in the body being dangerous. So quickly I found what is called serotonin toxicity syndrome. Most sites talked about SSRI's being the cause...but one confirmed that yes certain herbal supplements taken together can cause this too. Moreover, L-Trypophan acts as a major amplifier. Of course reading words like "fatal" and "needing immediate medical intervention" didn't exactly help my panicked mindset! I wrote as much down as possible...in my hyper manic state I was quite efficient despite shaky hands! I then humbly asked the hotel owner that sorry I need to go to the hospital. So they kindly obliged and took me to the best facility in the city. Seeing my beat red face with pulsing arteries..I got my vitals taken very quickly. My BP was 220/110! Heart rate over 100. I sat down with the doctor and handed over my scribbled self diagnoses. Luckily she was a very good physician who knew of this condition...after checking out my pupils she immediately sent me to the ICU...we're I was sedated, put on a saline drip, and given serotonin blockers...was put out of my misery and was "out" for at least 12 hours. Next day while feeling a little drugged up...I was thankfully out of that "manic hyper brain" mode.
Today almost a week later I'm back to my old self. Even though I'm off the "mood high" I was feeling all those weeks, I still am happy...and I think I worked out my "feeling" muscle and I'm hopeing that will stay. So despite the crisis I am somewhat thankfull in a weird way....it's just not worth risking your life for...so I'm very lucky I got away with it.
So to all you supplement over takers...be much more aware of exactly what these "drugs" are really doing to your biochemistry...more than you may think! I'm going back to the basics.

[Stavia]

oh shit, serotonin syndrome. Thank heavens you're OK.
I had a patient 2 weeks ago who got it on venlafaxime. T'was scary. Tachycardic, spacy, hypertensive, dilated pupils, clonus, vomiting etc.
She took over a week to recover.

Be careful honey
Hugs

[Julie G]

(((Jan Peter))) So glad you are OK, my friend. I've heard bits and pieces, but it's very interesting to hear your whole story. How amazing that you were able to have the wherewithal to DX yourself and communicate that in the midst of your crisis. You certainly saved your life. Your story is a good warning for us all. Be kind to yourself as you heal.

[Tincup]

Janpeter,

I'm glad you are OK. A number of years ago, I went through a program to help my sleep. It was developed by Dr. Marty Heinz of U of Minn. I was a patient of another doc who used Heniz's protocol. Here is a summary I found http://amino-acid-therapy.com/neurotran ... r-balance/

The idea is to change neurotransmitter levels using amino acid precursors, but to do so with very specific urinary testing of neurotransmitters. It was fairly effective. My then wife and some other friends who had more severe issues than me had good luck with it.

More recently I decided to try resistive starch and soil based bacteria, as the bugs will also create neurotransmitters. My initial response was wonderful sleep. After about six months, I'd wake up around 2 am and be "wired." My intuition told me my bugs had overdone the neurotransmitter production. So I quit all cold turkey. The issue went away quickly.

I may revisit at some point. Clearly there is a "Goldilocks" level that I overshot.

[KatieS]

Janpeter, what a horrifying experience for you. Grateful that you recovered from the excess serotonin syndrome, but it is so humbling to think that we can cause this ourselves.
Do you suspect the main culprit to be SAM-e (what dose?) I haven't purchased ashwaganda , but I will stop the SAM-e.

[Janpeter]

Honestly Kitano I'm not sure...I think it was the whole mix...actually as SAMe is a methyl donor and it probably was the most benign. I think the herbals, ashwaganda, bacopa, rodiola, together with the L-tryptophan were the culprits...but who knows? Cycling could maybe ward of the danger too. I'm being extra careful now.

[Welcomeaboard]

Thank God that Dr. Google was on call at Apple Memorial in bf Thailand or you could have bought the farm right there and then with no questions asked.

If you have any cool pictures feel free to post them for the vicarious travelers. You may even want to post good pictures on the food thread.

Glad you are still on top of the dirt.

[Janpeter]

Hey Welcomeboard you so artfully put my situation in a nutshell! you sure don't spare your words...that's great! You make me chuckle over my close call. I'm on Facebook under Jan-Peter Schuring...I post a lot there....or IM me ur Email and I'll include you in my "mass" mailing.

[Ski]

Interesting. I took Rhodiola and Ash together for a couple of months and certainly didnt come close to that feeling. Like you said maybe the entire concoction. Also, what they do say is that the longer you take those, the less effective they become and is really why one should cycle.

[asiagillett]

Janpeter, how much and how often were you taking L-Tryptophan? I know that is a precursor to serotonin. I have been conservatively experimenting with it, mainly b/c it was on Dr Bredesen's list. I have only been doing the 500mg 3x per week.

The only other thing I take in he list you gave is Ashwagandha. So sorry for your experience but relieved you are better.