EBT Calcium Scan

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
User avatar
Russ
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 543
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:33 am

Re: EBT Calcium Scan

Postby Russ » Sun May 10, 2015 3:23 pm

George,

Have not yet had a chance to view, but would be very interesting if you could ask Gundry for his view on calcium progression when you have your appointment. He was very anti-calcium scores when I had my consult, but his big argument was that calcium status was backward looking and not indicative of any risk. Progression may be a whole different matter?

Russ
Russ
E3/4
Eat whole, real, flavorful food - fresh and in season... and mix it up once in a while.

Online
Tincup
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 1651
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: EBT Calcium Scan

Postby Tincup » Sun May 10, 2015 3:45 pm

Russ,

I will. i wonder if he knows about Raggi: http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/24/7/1272.full.pdf+html
Specifically, from the paper Fig 2 & 3 (you can click each one separately to zoom).

Screen Shot 2015-05-10 at 3.39.33 PM.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Tincup
E3,E4

User avatar
Russ
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 543
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:33 am

Re: EBT Calcium Scan

Postby Russ » Sun May 10, 2015 3:51 pm

George,

Boy, that Figure 3 sure looks pretty solid! Makes it very clear that total calcium score is irrelevant if progression is less than 15% per year - even up into the CAC > 1000. I am most surprised that the paper is from 2004 and yet I don't recall anyone referencing before?

Would love to hear any counter arguments from anyone as this looks very solid.
Russ
E3/4
Eat whole, real, flavorful food - fresh and in season... and mix it up once in a while.

Online
Tincup
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 1651
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: EBT Calcium Scan

Postby Tincup » Sun May 10, 2015 5:52 pm

In the Q&A after the movie screening, Dr. Blanchet said he does tighten the 15% target for those with scores > 1000. He'd like 3-6% for those people. On the CD's, he says (at the time of recording) he had >90 patients with score > 1,000, including one >9,000. No heart attacks in 6 years of treating them. Said the 9,000 guy is still very active, trekking across Alaska. He also said he had > 900 (from my memory) patients with high, but <1000 scores. They are all doing fine. The CD mp3's are worth listening to.
Tincup
E3,E4

Matisse
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 4:44 pm

Re: EBT Calcium Scan

Postby Matisse » Sun May 10, 2015 9:42 pm

GeorgeN wrote:
Matisse wrote:May I ask who he is and where he is (w/o downloading)? Thanks.

Phone: 303-443-7226
Fax: 303-443-7168
William L. Blanchet, MD
2880 Folsom, Suite 100
Boulder, Colorado 80304

The link to his website is in my post above .


Thank you George.

User avatar
MarcR
Mod
Mod
Posts: 909
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:28 pm
Location: Camas, Washington, US

Re: EBT Calcium Scan

Postby MarcR » Sun May 24, 2015 1:05 pm

George, thank you very much for bringing this information to my attention. Listening to the CDs was well worth my time. Dr. Blanchet makes a lot of sense to me. I especially appreciate his clear explanations of the CVD process and why annual progression is so much more predictive than absolute score. Until today I had been unmotivated to get this test; now I am going to make it a priority.

It seems to be a four-figure expense where I live, so the savings from visiting FRPI for this test for me and my wife will pay for our travel expenses to beautiful Boulder. :-)
(Formerly merouleau)

Online
Tincup
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 1651
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: EBT Calcium Scan

Postby Tincup » Sun May 24, 2015 1:30 pm

Hey merouleau,

I checked and I think there are several EBT's in the Bay Area. You might check on cost & location and get it done while you're there, if you have time...

If you come to our area, you certainly have a place to stay, if you want it.
Tincup
E3,E4

User avatar
MarcR
Mod
Mod
Posts: 909
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:28 pm
Location: Camas, Washington, US

Re: EBT Calcium Scan

Postby MarcR » Mon May 25, 2015 12:28 am

Great suggestion, George, and thanks also for the offer to host us - very kind!

I did some more poking around. As I understand it now, there are two ways to get a CAC score:

1. Electron Beam Computed Tomography (EBCT or just EBT). This is the device used in the research studies which established the predictive power of CAC score tracking. The manufacturer was bought by GE in 2001. Since that time, the industry has moved to the more versatile 64-MDCT technology, and GE no longer sells EBCT devices.

2. 64 Slice Multidetector Computed Tomography (64-MDCT). Because this device provides a superset of EBCT functionality, it has become the scanner of choice for radiology practices. It seems to read about 20% lower than EBCT.

I didn't find many well-equipped radiology labs that are happy to do business directly. Most of them seem to require referrals. I couldn't identify such a lab in Portland, OR or Vancouver, WA (near my home), but I did locate one in Bend, OR, about three hours away. It offers 64-MDCT CAC scores for $99.

Since much of the diagnostic value seems to be in measuring the rate of progression over time, I lean toward starting my results series with 64-MDCT since it seems likely to be around longer.

Incidentally, this article tells me that EBCT precision is close to Dr. Blanchet's 15% safe annual progression threshold overall and much much worse at lower non-zero CAC scores, and this article tells me that 64-MDCT offers similar precision. I wonder if Dr. Blanchet's 15% guideline is just a practical way of saying 0% while allowing for device imprecision. Also, given the precision findings, it's pretty clear that a 300% increase from 2 to 8 is NOT the same as a 300% increase from 200 to 800.
(Formerly merouleau)

Online
Tincup
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 1651
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: EBT Calcium Scan

Postby Tincup » Mon May 25, 2015 6:12 am

Yes, I concur. One reason I like the EBT better is the lower radiation exposure. The 64-MDCT is a better choice from a revenue standpoint for the medical provider because of its flexibility.
Tincup
E3,E4

User avatar
Julie G
Mod
Mod
Posts: 6596
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:36 pm

Re: EBT Calcium Scan

Postby Julie G » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:17 pm

I'm resurrecting this thread as I was just just about to toss a hard copy of this 2015 Medscape article I got during our recent meet-up and thought I ought to share for those who weren't there. (You may have to register to see it. It's free & simple.)

Just in case you thought your low Framingham Risk Score (FRS) put you in the clear; think again...
Overall, the addition of the CAC score to the FRS reclassified risk in 50.7% of individuals...

That's HUGE; over half of patients in this study with low Framingham Risk Scores (that's most of us) we're actually found to be at a greater risk of CVD per CAC scoring. Every other cardiac test is a surrogate marker. This is the only one that demonstrates real risk assesment.

Coronary Calcium Imaging Improves on Framingham Score Regardless of Symptoms in Analysis
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/839562


Return to “Prevention and Treatment”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jan, Perki2 and 10 guests