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Seasonal Variability - Hadza Example

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
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Juliegee
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Re: Seasonal Variability - Hadza Example

Postby Juliegee » Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:49 pm

Of course the implication is that all of our dialogue on high vs low fat may be missing a key variable?


I couldn't agree more, Russ. All of those factors: variability, weather (and subsequent exercise/vitamin D), individual ethnicity (concordance with current location) all must play a role when trying to recreate an evolutionarily relevant ecosystem. For many aging Westerners, add to the above, the emergence of MetS :?

Constant ketosis probably isn't a good idea for anyone. I move in and out of mild ketosis daily hopeful that is a helpful/safe degree of variability for me.

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Re: Seasonal Variability - Hadza Example

Postby Russ » Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:34 am

Julie, I think the potential implication is that much higher variability could be important - both in magnitude and time. Look at Hadza data - 25%:5% of food weight from honey:meat in April and ~2%:60% honey:meat in Sept. Other ancestral cultures probably had very different patterns due to what was available, but seem equally likely to have experienced some dramatic variability during the year. Simple drifting in and out of ketosis may not yield the same beneficial cyclic effects?
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Re: Seasonal Variability - Hadza Example

Postby Russ » Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:26 am

Julie, Occurs to me a way to deepen your insight on the potential merit of extreme stresses rather than modest variability is by reading Nassim Taleb's "Antifragile" (which I believe I've mentioned before). Herein a blog post by an 'ancestral health' blogger putting Taleb's concepts into nutrition/health application…
http://gettingstronger.org/2013/07/antifragile/

The book…
http://www.amazon.com/Antifragile-Things-That-Disorder-Incerto/dp/0812979680/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1420388675&sr=8-1
Note that the book is excellent for it's ideas, but a bit rambling in places. I think Taleb's status gave him more freedom over his editor this time but he took it too far at times ;-)
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Re: Seasonal Variability - Hadza Example

Postby Juliegee » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:16 am

Thanks for the suggestion, Russ. I'll follow up on Taleb. I LOVE the title of the book; seems to imply the use of hormesis to strengthen? I'm fascinated as the concept can be applied on so many levels...

As a MetS survivor, whose experienced cognitive issues, the idea of splurging on carbs (as an expression of variability) is slightly terrifying :?

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Re: Seasonal Variability - Hadza Example

Postby SusanJ » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:28 am

Hmm, it might not be an immediate splurge, per se. If you think about seasonal change, it tends to come somewhat slowly. For example, all the apples don't ripen and then fall off the tree at the same time. A slow transition in foods (a few apples to start, then more as they ripen) might give our bodies, and more specifically our gut bacteria to adjust to what we're eating. So maybe it's not the idea that oh, it's October 1 so I'm changing to a new "winter" diet, but really thinking about eating more seasonally, and making a slower transition as availability of food changes so the gut can adjust. :?:

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Re: Seasonal Variability - Hadza Example

Postby Russ » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:32 pm

Susan, Sure - there ought to be a long, slow variance at the scale of the annual seasons. But in principle this also implies variability at other scales - e.g. variability of the success of the hunt in the short term, and variability due to droughts/bounty in the longer. Here a very brief speculation by Nassim Taleb himself earlier this year to an intermittent fasting experiment…

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8nhAlfIk3QISldaN2dPd2VlMGs/view?pli=1

…where he calculates that if one experienced a day-long fast once per week, this would also imply a 2 day fast ~1x per month and a full week fast 'every few years.' In principle, 'feasting' would work similarly.

So here a long, slow variability in carbs/fat/protein (and even other micronutrient?) content might also imply other variations on shorter scales - i.e. not a 'carb night' every week either, but ups and downs in carb content on both short and long scales. Don't think we need to over think this as out ancestors sure didn't - they just experienced it based on variability. A confirming clue that it's time for a change for me was yesterday when one of our favorite local farmers told me he would not be there after next week for a while as the fall foods had finished and it was time to replant for spring harvest (I live in coastal Texas).

Hard to know what optimal looks like if true, but seems to me that the most direct implication is that a fairly stable dietary makeup throughout the days, weeks, months and years may not be such a good thing.
Russ
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Re: Seasonal Variability - Hadza Example

Postby SusanJ » Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:21 pm

Hard to know what optimal looks like if true, but seems to me that the most direct implication is that a fairly stable dietary makeup throughout the days, weeks, months and years may not be such a good thing.


Good observation. For some reason I saw stable dietary makeup over time and thought of the people in WALL-E. :lol:

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Re: Seasonal Variability - Hadza Example

Postby Stavia » Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:29 pm

Does this mean that eating many plums just ripened from the tree in my garden is ok?
(its summer here)

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Re: Seasonal Variability - Hadza Example

Postby Juliegee » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:35 pm

Per Russ, YES :D Per Julie, Argh :shock:

My MetS recovery program features excess brocoli on carb night. I'm just scared. I truly believe in the concept. No doubt that variability plays a huge role in optimal health in a healthy person, but I'm a damaged middle-aged (if I'm lucky!) Westerner... I'm still trying to work out how to safely apply the concept to build strength as opposed to further harming myself. W.I.P

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Re: Seasonal Variability - Hadza Example

Postby GeorgeN » Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:00 pm

Gorge & fast, Stav...

You can also start foraging for crickets and grubs :lol:
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