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Olive Oil is BAD for Us????? Opinions on Esselstyn

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:42 pm
by rep
What the heck? So much conflicting information. Is olive oil causing heart disease? Please present evidence to the contrary. Tell me Esselstyn is wrong. Even if olive oil may be bad for our endothelial lining might its contribution to brain health trump that? Tell me what you know!

Also - Does anyone suspect Bill Clinton may have an E4 gene?

http://www.happyhealthylonglife.com/happy_healthy_long_life/2008/07/im-going-to-miss-my-olive-oil---who-knew-it-wasnt-so-healthy-after-all-drs-esselstyn-ornish-vogel-rudel-did.html

Re: Olive Oil is BAD for Us????? Opinions on Esselstyn

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:00 pm
by GenePoole0304
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... po=50.0000

http://www.lipidworld.com/content/14/1/9

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/10/1/122

We know the n-1 evoo experiment failed here. Small amounts are ok in a meal.

I mainly use high olieic acid mono oils. Eat olives!

Re: Olive Oil is BAD for Us????? Opinions on Esselstyn

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:33 pm
by RichardS
If you look at the numerous publications from the huge, lengthy and well-controlled PREDIMED study where EVOO was a primary intervention, I think you will find it hard to take Esselstyn seriously.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?ter ... s+predimed

Note that there are several PREDIMED substudies that directly address vascular health and EVOO.

If you take Denise Minger's viewpoint about the "magic" that happens on either extreme of dietary fat content (either <10% or low carb), there may be something there, but just because a 10% fat diet can help some people with heart health as part of a comprehensive strategy, doesn't mean that EVOO is inherently evil.

Re: Olive Oil is BAD for Us????? Opinions on Esselstyn

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:07 pm
by Ski
GenePoole0304 wrote:I mainly use high olieic acid mono oils. Eat olives!

Care to share what specific oil you use?

Re: Olive Oil is BAD for Us????? Opinions on Esselstyn

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:42 pm
by Julie G
Here's a link to the talk Richard referenced entitled Lessons from the Vegans
HTTPS://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KFfK27B_qZY

If you enjoy headspinning, it's worth a listen :shock: Minger describes the "magic" that happens at both ends of the dietary spectrum with very low fat diet (think Esselstyn) and very low carb diet (think Gundry.)

Re: Olive Oil is BAD for Us????? Opinions on Esselstyn

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:23 pm
by GenePoole0304
Ski wrote:
GenePoole0304 wrote:I mainly use high olieic acid mono oils. Eat olives!

Care to share what specific oil you use?



Safflower oil is the main type I'm using now not so obvious in the markings, but look for high heat oils

http://www.sunflowernsa.com/oil/what-is ... lower-oil/

http://www.oilseedssf.com/products/inte ... fragment-1

1-2 tsp, it is neutral tasting, never stir fried with it yet but it would be good to try, even evoo I stir fried with and measured the pan temp and it was well below safe temp, not much is needed and with evoo it improves taste. I have a pan thermometer I use.

I mentioned it a few times.

it is not so much that evoo is bad for us but for certain sensitive people it could be and excess amounts mostly due to its sat fat content can add to an existing problem but the poly-phenol content is beneficial but you can get it by eating a few olives and the vinegar is good for digestion too.

Re: Olive Oil is BAD for Us????? Opinions on Esselstyn

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:16 pm
by MarcR
On Wednesday Amy Berger posted a review of Extra Virginity: The Sublime and Scandalous World of Olive Oil. I recall reading previously about the 2011 NYT-bestselling book, but my sensitivity to the fraud has subsided somewhat over time. Amy's review reminded me of the prevalence of distributing highly processed mixtures of low-grade olive and other oils as EVOO.

I knew that California Olive Ranch is a safe, economical brand that is available in some mainstream grocery stores, and it has been my mainstay for the past year or two. After reading the comments in Amy's link to the author's EVOO sources page, I feel good about the EVOO I use at home. Where I realize I have been lax is in restaurants. Usually I order some sort of entree salad with EVOO and vinegar for dressing. Amy's review reminded me that the EVOO is likely to be something else. I think going forward I'll try to remember to bring a bit of EVOO from home and just stick with the vinegar when I forget.

With respect to science, I made a mental note to evaluate for each EVOO-related study the possibility that some or all of the EVOO used for the study was bogus.

Re: Olive Oil is BAD for Us????? Opinions on Esselstyn

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:46 pm
by apod
This is a relevant new article:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25733165
RESULTS:
Treatment of HUVEC with serum obtained 2 h after the intake of the high-phenol VOO-based breakfast decreased p65 and MCP-1 gene expression (p < 0.001 and p = 0.002, respectively) and increased MT-CYB, SDHA and SOD1 gene expression (p = 0.004, p = 0.012 and p = 0.001, respectively), as compared with the treatment of HUVEC with the serum obtained 2 h after the intake of the low-phenol VOO-based breakfast. The treatment with serum obtained 4 h after the intake of the high-phenol VOO-based breakfast decreased MCP-1 and CAT gene expression (p < 0.001 and p = 0.003, respectively) and increased MT-CYB gene expression (p < 0.001), as compared to the treatment with serum obtained 4 h after the intake of the low-phenol VOO-based breakfast.

CONCLUSION:
Our results suggest that the consumption of virgin olive oil rich in phenolic compounds may reduce the risk of atherosclerosis development by decreasing inflammation and improving the antioxidant profile in the vascular endothelium.
High oleic safflower oil can be as low as 75% oleic, or ~77-80%, where you can get high phenol great tasting olive oil at 81% oleic. With safflower, you're getting ~15% omega-6, where you can get olive oils under 6% linoleic acid.

The curing process for olives to be edible removes a lot of the polyphenols as compared with the unfiltered oil from the raw pressed fruits.

Re: Olive Oil is BAD for Us????? Opinions on Esselstyn

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:35 am
by Gilgamesh
RichardS wrote:If you look at the numerous publications from the huge, lengthy and well-controlled PREDIMED study [...]

I'm not going to toss my EVOO, but I wouldn't call the PREDIMED study well-controlled. It's been widely criticized on numerous counts, the primary being that the control group wasn't truly low-fat, except at the beginning. [Edit: Actually, it was never low-fat. Indeed, the fat levels barely changed at all. See Ornish's letter here: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc1306659#SA6?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%3dpubmed]

http://www.wikijournalclub.org/wiki/PREDIMED

GB

Re: Olive Oil is BAD for Us????? Opinions on Esselstyn

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:22 pm
by RichardS
Gilgamesh wrote:
RichardS wrote:If you look at the numerous publications from the huge, lengthy and well-controlled PREDIMED study [...]

I'm not going to toss my EVOO, but I wouldn't call the PREDIMED study well-controlled. It's been widely criticized on numerous counts, the primary being that the control group wasn't truly low-fat, except at the beginning. [Edit: Actually, it was never low-fat. Indeed, the fat levels barely changed at all. See Ornish's letter here: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc1306659#SA6?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%3dpubmed]

http://www.wikijournalclub.org/wiki/PREDIMED

GB


My main point was the positive effect of EVOO. If it was as bad as Esselstyn says, he probably would have predicted a worsening of clinical outcomes in PREDIMED. There is no perfect study, and we need true peer review and watchdogs to keep the scientists honest, even vegan boosters like Ornish, but I maintain that PREDIMED supports the inclusion of EVOO in a healthy diet.

The amount of it to use is clearly up for debate. I think including 50g/day of added oils, even EVOO, is pushing it as it can easily crowd out other potentially nutrient-dense foods from the diet.