SFA vs Dietary Cholesterol restriction

[pgf54]

One square, 10g dark 90% chocolate, olive oil, avocado, and asst nuts.......... As my restricted calorie intake is around 1850 i guess it should be more like 12 sfa ?

[apod]

Apod according to current evidence as far as I understand from my many hours of study (oh my its complicated), dietary cholesterol intake within reason doesn't make a huge difference to the overall total amount in the body (called the cholesterol pool, which is in constant dynamic flux), most of which is made denovo in the liver. Someone pls correct me if Im mistaken!
However I still am trying to get my head around saturated fat. Apparently it upregulates liver cholesterol synthesis and its consequent packaging into LDL particles thru multiple pathways - eg providing the precursor molecules(acetyl co a?), doing something to the ldl synthesis something, doing something to cell membrane signalling something...
Ugh. Hard....

But I was thinking....the eggs plus the salmon plus the chicken breast in one day? I guess you're eating three times a day? How many grams/kg protein are you shooting for? And to follow Julies excellent summary of Prof I's advice re protein - what percentage of your calories is protein?
Just curious to see your thoughtful approach so we can all learn from each other.

I've read that SFA down-regulates LDL receptors (I believe a low-carb diet and a low-calorie diet also do this to some degree.) This article mentions the effect doesn't occur in shorter chain SFA's (although, it's an old article and it seems like I've read effects of MCT's raising cholesterol for ApoE4's through another mechanism.)

Lately, I'm doing 3 square meals a day. With 2 meals, the meals tend to need to be fairly large (often up around 1,000kcal, if not a bit larger) this works great with a low-carb bordering on ketogenic diet, but I was getting kind of sleepy / fatigued after switching it out for a bunch of carbohydrate in the afternoon for breakfast. At 3 meals, I can kind of space them out a bit more and do a lower-carb / lower-gi lunch and it seems to work better for now. It seems like I'm a bit hungrier now eating less fat. (Right now I've got ~ a 9-10hr eating window with 4-5hrs between meals, where in the past it was as narrow as 6-8hrs with a 7hr and 16hr gap between meals, eaten comfortably around hunger.) Lately, protein intake is at 95-110g, which feels a bit high for me (although, even in the past, I would rarely dip below 75g, which is only 100 calories or so of difference.) I'm 157lb at 5'9, where 85 grams of protein is around a 1.2g/kg ratio (I exercise for around 30m most days.) To decrease protein and keep SFA under 15g would need to raise carbs further (and maybe drop some lean body mass.)

[Stavia]

One square, 10g dark 90% chocolate, olive oil, avocado, and asst nuts.......... As my restricted calorie intake is around 1850 i guess it should be more like 12 sfa ?

Paul I put 10gm 75% dark choc, 2 T olive oil, a quarter avo and 30grm nuts into cron o meter and I got 9gm saturated fat. That's only 4.5% of calories. Gives you leeway for a bit of meat.

[Stavia]

I've read that SFA down-regulates LDL receptors (I believe a low-carb diet and a low-calorie diet also do this to some degree.) This article mentions the effect doesn't occur in shorter chain SFA's (although, it's an old article and it seems like I've read effects of MCT's raising cholesterol for ApoE4's through another mechanism.)

Lately, I'm doing 3 square meals a day. With 2 meals, the meals tend to need to be fairly large (often up around 1,000kcal, if not a bit larger) this works great with a low-carb bordering on ketogenic diet, but I was getting kind of sleepy / fatigued after switching it out for a bunch of carbohydrate in the afternoon for breakfast. At 3 meals, I can kind of space them out a bit more and do a lower-carb / lower-gi lunch and it seems to work better for now. It seems like I'm a bit hungrier now eating less fat. (Right now I've got ~ a 9-10hr eating window with 4-5hrs between meals, where in the past it was as narrow as 6-8hrs with a 7hr and 16hr gap between meals, eaten comfortably around hunger.) Lately, protein intake is at 95-110g, which feels a bit high for me (although, even in the past, I would rarely dip below 75g, which is only 100 calories or so of difference.) I'm 157lb at 5'9, where 85 grams of protein is around a 1.2g/kg ratio (I exercise for around 30m most days.) To decrease protein and keep SFA under 15g would need to raise carbs further (and maybe drop some lean body mass.)

Thanks Apod, gosh that is a lot of food. Your one meal is almost my whole day's food. I can see why you need three meals! I can see its a problem what to eat when one gets up to that level of calories. You need fat so as to not have too much protein or carbs to make up your 3000 cals, and most fat contains at least some saturated fat. A knife edge balance. I guess the only way is to experiment with different amounts and test, test, test. I still think absolute values of macronutrients are sometimes more useful than percentages.
Your current regime sounds eminently sensible and I can see you have put a lot of thought into it.

This is all I could find in the sat fat-LDL story. Its a bit old circa 2005 but I cant find anything more recent. I intend to search DrD's site
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/135/9/2075.full

[pgf54]

Gives you leeway for a bit of meat.

Lol i havent eaten any meat for 42 years .........and only fish last few years.but now five days week with two soy days.......I do eat half an avocado and about 46gms nuts , brazil, walnut, macadamia and predominately almonds............ Just recently added three eggs a week after reading on here people eat them.......that certainly puts my cholesterol input up from minimal............................................................

[Stavia]

Gives you leeway for a bit of meat.

Lol i havent eaten any meat for 42 years .........and only fish last few years.but now five days week with two soy days.......I do eat half an avocado and about 46gms nuts , brazil, walnut, macadamia and predominately almonds............ Just recently added three eggs a week after reading on here people eat them.......that certainly puts my cholesterol input up from minimal............................................................

Paul it sounds ok to me. What do others think?

[Russ]

I previously said...

With all humility and knowing that there's just a whole bunch we don't know, I still say we shouldn't over think this. I say eat clean, whole, real foods - fresh and in season. Processed foods are not whole nor real. Foods sprayed with chemicals are not clean. Simplicity should be a property of the right answer as our evolutionary history seemed to do better on many fronts (e.g. non-acute conditions) until we mucked it all up (unintentionally).

…and of course, since I would ruin my reputation if I didn't mention variability… i.e. change it up from time to time

…after reading this, it becomes even clearer to me that I missed one thing - flavor. See this essay from Mark Shatkzer in the WSJ about how maybe it's not calories, fat/carbs/protein at all, but the fact that we've been deceiving out taste buds for the last several decades to cover up for loss of natural flavor…

http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-flavor- ... 1428596326

So I now say, eat clean, whole, real and tasty foods - fresh and in season…. and maybe 'listen' to your body as you change it up from time to time

In theory at least, doing this will give your body what it needs… even as that may change through time. But implies a whole new level of self-awareness, and of course a source of healthy foods to choose from in the first place.

[amywads]

hello im new to this forum and am apoe3/4 have high ldl (145) high lpa 75 ok hdl at 89, and am a hyper absorber of cholestrol..like many of you every day seems to be a stressful science experiment on what to eat what not to eat. In addition, i have to keep my calories up as im very active and naturally underweight and underfat. its so confusing as an apoe 4.i know i have to keep animal and SFA lower, hi as per the apoe perfect gene diet rec. high plant protein/plant fat/ high unrefined carbs. two issues with this is
High lpa has shown to increase:: with high plant fat and protein, and high carb (even unrefined) esp soy which are staples of a low ldl diet.
in addition, knowing i hyperabsorb plant sterols too makes it concering to eat a high plant fat diet

so basically im faced with eating to lower LDL but raise lpa and possibly alzheimers risk (as studies have shown SFA are HELPFUL in brain health) or lowering lp a which will likely increase LDL and possibly create more arterial plaque and cholesterol.

my daily diet looks bascially like this
breakfast: two servings of steel cut oats, quinoa, or buckwheat or brown rice, a non fat plain yogurt with grass fed whey powder and about 6-8 oz of berries, an apple and a half or cup and half of pineapple
lunch: large baked potato or sweer potato topped with almond butter and plain steamed veggies or topped with beans, plain raw veggies, corn and olive oil or avocado
1 oz dark chocolate
dinner 6-8 oz plain steamed or baked lean grass fed meat fish or poultry
two cups cooked veggies
two servings of a whole grain, pasta, rice,
dessert one full fa yogurt with honey or bowl or turkey hill all natural ice cream with some more chocolate
i exercise about 45-65 mins daily with cycling, running, HITT weight workouts etc

i need advice

[Julie G]

Welcome Amy I moved your intro here to give it more attention: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1322&p=14343#p14343

[Ski]

Please also note in the same link, he explains that blockers of absorption (such as ezetimibe) upregulate cholesterol synthesis so shouldnt be used alone in therapy without a blocker of synthesis. I knew this before but didnt know why. This is an extremely important point..

Another mechanism to also consider is that statin treatment also causes an up-regulation of PCSK9. This causes LDL receptor degradation and is hypothesised why their is a somewhat plateau even when increasing statin dosages.

For those that may not know, PCSK9 inhibitors are the latest drugs undergoing trials for hyperlipidemia. Berberine supplements inhibits PCSK9 as well as suppresses hepatic glucose output. I am on the verge of experimenting substituting the statin for Berberine to see the lipid and glucose response.