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Could you help me? ketogenic Vegan diet, how to do it? Some tips...

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Julie G
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Re: Could you help me? ketogenic Vegan diet, how to do it? Some tips...

Postby Julie G » Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:24 pm

facu, is the vegan requirement coming from your father, or you? I ask as many of us eat primarily vegetables, but also a little fish, shellfish, and high Omega-3 eggs. Including those foods, rich in Omega-3 fatty acids and choline may provide your father with more variety, satiety, and nutrition.

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Re: Could you help me? ketogenic Vegan diet, how to do it? Some tips...

Postby apod » Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:11 pm

facu0001 wrote:Do you know where I could find more choices for his menu or a menu?
Here's a couple random pics from this morning's breakfast:
http://imgur.com/a/uARJv

Image
Image

I did some Seaforth chocolate (100%), macadamia + almonds tossed in EVOO + onion powder + salt + Aged Kyolic Garlic, a slice of cauliflower pressured cooked with tamari + black pepper + turmeric + parsley then topped with pureed olives + pureed capers + EVOO + maqui berry powder + oregano + fresh basil, red wine vinegar, then a few bowls of a veggie fro-yo-type food using some organic vegan protein (rice + pea + hemp + mushrooms) blended with an avocado, kale, collard greens, hawaiian spirulina, psyllium, flax seed, maca, vanilla bean, ceylon cinnamon, ice, Lo Salt, a couple ounces of fresh cranberries (unsweetened) and a little bit of apple cider vinegar + stevia. I had this with some green tea, a B-Complex, a few minerals (silica + iodine + magnesium), ashwagandha, and CoQ10 + PQQ. By my rough calculations, this meal came out to around 1300kcal, 50g fiber, 25g net carb, 20g sfa, 45g protein, with a 2.5 omega ratio. A bit high on the carbohydrates for maintaining level ketosis (although I seem to tolerate these best in the morning after fasted exercise particularly with high amounts of fat+fiber+protein), ymmv.

Often, I just do a big-ass salad with meat / seafood used like a seasoning rather than a "main dish."

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Re: Could you help me? ketogenic Vegan diet, how to do it? Some tips...

Postby facu0001 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:50 pm

Thank you very much George N Great video!!! :) 22 hours of fasting congratulations!!! Would you recomend me to buy the book of Dr. Gundry´s diet evolution?

Thank you Circular!!! MCT oil is necessary besides coconut oil?,

Thank you apod Great pictures!!!! I loved!!! I will try to make this récipes :)

Thank you Juliegee for your advice!!!! The vegan requirement was my idea, but I think that a not vegan approach for my father will be the best, because he loves meat, fish, eggs and animal protein. Would you recommend us to go to Buck institute (although he will not understand anything, because he only speaks spanish) or just go to a physician who works with MEND protocol? (I am thinking in tests such us to know if he has leaky gut and sensitivities to gluten.)

Is is possible to have the risk of eating too much fat? (I heard eating a lot of fat is the best way to get in ketosis)

Thank you very much!! :D

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Re: Could you help me? ketogenic Vegan diet, how to do it? Some tips...

Postby Tincup » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:57 pm

facu0001 wrote:Thank you very much George N Great video!!! :) 22 hours of fasting congratulations!!! Would you recomend me to buy the book of Dr. Gundry´s diet evolution?


The book gives insight in to Dr. G's approach. However he has said the food lists in the book were a compromise between him and his editor and not a strict as what he prescribes. You can think of the Matrix food list as an extension of the phase 3 diet in the book.

facu0001 wrote:Thank you Circular!!! MCT oil is necessary besides coconut oil?,

MCT is refined from coconut oil. It is more concentrated than coconut oil but both will work. Caprillic acid (C8) is even more refined. The liver will make ketones from all the medium chain triglycerides, whether you are low carb enough to be in ketosis or not. Mary Newport MD http://www.coconutketones.com/ used to mix MCT and coconut oil together it was about a 60/40 mix but I don't recall which was 60 and which 40. You heat the coconut oil to liquify it (melting point 77 deg F - 25 C) and then mix the two. The resulting mix stays liquid. I used to feed this to my demented mother a number of years ago. Dr. Newport found the combination had a smoother, longer acting profile in the system. I think it would last 4-6 hours. You'd need to verify on her site.

facu0001 wrote: (I am thinking in tests such us to know if he has leaky gut and sensitivities to gluten.)

Gundry's experience is that a high percentage of his patients are lectin sensitive. He sees significant drop in inflammatory markers in many when they adopt his approach. My 4/4 wife had no overt signs of autoimmune issues, however her inflammatory markers dropped into the "good" range when she eliminated the lectins. I, on the other hand, have always had autoimmune issues. I also responded very positively to removing lectins.

facu0001 wrote:Is is possible to have the risk of eating too much fat? (I heard eating a lot of fat is the best way to get in ketosis)

This is controversial. Gundry tells us that animal fat in E4's will raise sdLDL, however he recommends lots of fat from nuts, unfiltered extra virgin olive oil, avocado oil, coconut oil. Here is a transcript from our first call with himhttps://www.apoe4.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=570&p=16389&hilit=gundry+wife+sdldl+Singulex#p16389 We've had two, but I've yet to upload the second. My diet is about 80% fat calories, but none from land animal fat (beef, pork, chicken, dairy).
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Re: Could you help me? ketogenic Vegan diet, how to do it? Some tips...

Postby facu0001 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:46 am

wow!!! many thanks!!! I really appreciated your answer!!! ;) ;) ;)

Just for my curiosity, Dr. Bredesen also talks about to be away of lectin in lectine sensitive patients?

Do you know what lab tests to order to figure out if a patient is lectine sensitive?

Thanks a lot!!! :)

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Re: Could you help me? ketogenic Vegan diet, how to do it? Some tips...

Postby Tincup » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:50 am

facu0001 wrote:Just for my curiosity, Dr. Bredesen also talks about to be away of lectin in lectine sensitive patients?

From Table 1 in Bredesen's paper http://www.impactaging.com/papers/v6/n9/full/100690.html

Goal: Optimize diet: minimize simple CHO, minimize inflammation.
Approach: Patients given choice of several low glycemic, low inflammatory, low grain diets.
Rationale and References: Minimize inflammation, minimize insulin resistance.


Lectin not specifically mentioned, but you could interpret minimizing inflammation and "llow inflammatory, low grain diets" in this way. I don't think Bredesen is as fixated on lectins as Gundry.

facu0001 wrote:Do you know what lab tests to order to figure out if a patient is lectine sensitive?


Gundry indicates that his experience is that adiponectin >16 will indicate a person will be lectin sensitive. Not sure you get a pass if <16. My wife & I are both >30.

Gundry doesn't care what happens to adiponectin once you are on his program. He looks at TNF-alpha, interleukin 6 & 17a, hsCRP & etc. An approach, you could test these inflammatory markers. If elevated, adopt the program & retest to see if they respond (ours did).

You can look at our Singulex tests uploaded below the transcript, which is here: https://www.apoe4.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=570&p=16389&hilit=gundry+wife+sdldl+Singulex#p16390 to see the tests he runs.

Here is a poster he presented http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/129/Suppl_1/AP354
Eight hundred pts (80%) related some history of autoimmune disease (AID) personally or among family members, including Hashimotos thyroiditis, IBS, arthritis, RA, Lupus, Crohns, colitis, GERD, CAD, Type 1 DM.

Adiponectin levels were elevated in all 800 pts with family hx or personal history of AID (16.6-83 ug/ml)(nl<16.5). TNF-alpha levels were elevated in 760/800pts with AID hx (95%) (>3.0 pg/mL). In contrast, Adiponectin was normal in 200 remaining pts without AID history (<16.5 ug/ml), while TNF-alpha was normal in 100/200 (50%) of pts without AID.

When the lectin and gluten free diet was instituted, all TNF-alpha levels became normal in all 1,000 pts (<3.0 pg/mL), within 6 months and remained normal, if the diet was followed, for up to one year of study. However, despite normal TNF-alpha levels, Adiponectin levels remained elevated in 790/800 pts with AID hx. Late lack of adherence to the diet occurred in 56/1,000 pts (6%) (as determined by questionnaire) resulted in re-elevation of TNF-alpha in 56/56 pts (100%).


So you can still be sensitive to lectins and have an OK level of adiponectin. It is not a perfect screen. I'd probably test inflammation and then see if it responds to the diet, if elevated.

Gundry talks about lectins in this interview https://selfhacked.com/2015/12/11/dr-gundry-turning-off-autoimmunity-with-a-lectin-avoidance-diet/

Inflammation is also caused by excess glucose & insulin. My opinion the goal is to minimize inflammation in any chronic disease of aging.
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Re: Could you help me? ketogenic Vegan diet, how to do it? Some tips...

Postby Hubbs » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:53 pm

GeorgeN wrote:
facu0001 wrote:Is is possible to have the risk of eating too much fat? (I heard eating a lot of fat is the best way to get in ketosis)

This is controversial. Gundry tells us that animal fat in E4's will raise sdLDL, however he recommends lots of fat from nuts, unfiltered extra virgin olive oil, avocado oil, coconut oil. Here is a transcript from our first call with himhttps://www.apoe4.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=570&p=16389&hilit=gundry+wife+sdldl+Singulex#p16389 We've had two, but I've yet to upload the second. My diet is about 80% fat calories, but none from land animal fat (beef, pork, chicken, dairy).


Following Gundry's animal fat intake limit for the last three+ months, <4oz/day shell fish mostly, my sdLDL-C dropped from 30 to 17, %sdLDL-C from 22 to 15. My HDL-C is reduced from 67 in March to 51 now, which I wonder if due to less intense workout, and minimal intake of salmon/sardines. I might add those back and see if that improves.
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Re: Could you help me? ketogenic Vegan diet, how to do it? Some tips...

Postby Tincup » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:39 pm

Hubbs wrote:Following Gundry's animal fat intake limit for the last three+ months, <4oz/day shell fish mostly, my sdLDL-C dropped from 30 to 17, %sdLDL-C from 22 to 15. My HDL-C is reduced from 67 in March to 51 now, which I wonder if due to less intense workout, and minimal intake of salmon/sardines. I might add those back and see if that improves.

My opinion - you have nothing to worry about on the lipid front. These results look stellar! As to HDL, your Tg/HDL ratio is very close to 1, which is ideal. Likewise, your fasting insulin is excellent!
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Re: Could you help me? ketogenic Vegan diet, how to do it? Some tips...

Postby Hubbs » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:02 pm

Thanks George. I feel good about such improvement on my lipids compare to last year. But BH lab report says my HDL map is ABNORMAL and ApoA-1 levels are reduced in the very large a-1 particle. It mentions niacin therapy but the endocrinologist says niacin raises blood sugar level. Also I just got my first bottle of a statin (pravastatin 10mg/day) for the control of my carotid artery plaque. Since my TC is down to 169, do I need to avoid bring it down too low as I getting older?
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Re: Could you help me? ketogenic Vegan diet, how to do it? Some tips...

Postby facu0001 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:47 am

Thank so very much Hubbs for the link and GeorgeN. :) It seems to me that you know a lot!!! I wish I could know as much as you do.

I am planing to travel to California with my father, do you know any physician who uses the MEND protocol?

What studies will you recommend my father to have done?

How long do you think we should stay in EEUU? (to have the tests results done) is necessary to wait for the results? or May I ask to send the results by email? I heard cyrex lab is one of the best.

Thank you very much once more!!!

Facundo


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