Optimal Protein?

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LanceS
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Re: Optimal Protein?

Postby LanceS » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:46 am

I think as carbs are being villified... we ultimately will put protein into that seat as well.

I started trying to hit about 1.2 g/kg... have migrated down to 1.0 g/kg... and feel like I don't lose strength at that level.

Have been experimenting with a 0.8 g/kg and feel like that is probably achievable as well.

But I do surge when I have strenuous workouts. Although my surges are much shorter in duration... used to be 2-3 days now I tend to just supplement for a day max. My surges are lower in magnitude as well.

It is difficult to reconcile how much Americans (assuming most on here are) eat and how much we can probably healthily eat. I don't know much about the thyroid, so everything above should carry that caveat.

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Re: Optimal Protein?

Postby Hepoberman » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:53 am

Stavia wrote:Thanks Hep. Now what if we are not insulin resistant? Will the cortisol still trigger muscle cannabalism? Why?


It can, but probably won't. There is always a constant turn over of amino acids (without catabolic action) and there seems to be a preference for pyruvate, lactate and glycerol before using glucogenic amino acids.

You'd have to starve for a long time but even then the body has a way of using the least important proteins first. I don't know the mechanisms for prioritization (I only have guesses). Its fascinating stuff.

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Re: Optimal Protein?

Postby Tincup » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:16 pm

I've heard some, including Ron Rosedale suggest our standards for thyroid may for "normal" but not "optimal." That is, a higher thyroid output that we consider normal, may not be optimal. I think it was in this podcast http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/tag/ron-rosedale. He is not the only one to express this.
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Julie G
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Re: Optimal Protein?

Postby Julie G » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:34 pm

Really interesting discussion. It sounds like no one is going as low protein as Dr. Gundry's recommends. I find it very interesting that his approach marries a neuroprotection ketogenic diet (a la Perlmutter) with a CR/longevity twist. Sort of blending my approach with James's or G's.

FWIW, I'm eating around .8 grams of protein per kilo (about 46 grams) daily and it yielded me an IGF-1 of 121. That's the first time I've paid attention to that marker so I have no context. My guess is that I could go even lower with animal protein to further reduce it. I've been mildly ketogenic for several years, with lower protein the last 6 months, and I have found it extremely Important to engage in some moderate strength training to avoid catabolizing muscle. No big deal.

Hep, your description of glucoseneogenisis is fascinating. I always hear the term used in the context of a ketogenic diet with too much protein. BUT, I most certainly experienced the phenomenon when I was displaying symptoms of IR, eating a primarily LFHC diet. I had constant severe hypoglycemia with sky high cortisol. Now, that I'm mildly ketogenic with no signs of IR, my cortisol is perfectly normal.

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Re: Optimal Protein?

Postby Tincup » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:41 pm

I went back and reread Gundry's patient's post, she said " I have not managed to get my protein down to 4 oz (or 20 grams) a day yet." So clearly he's talking 20g/day plus the bit in non starchy veggies. Julie, I'm guessing you meant 0.8 g protein/kg body weight, not 0.08. I also tend to be at 0.8g/kg.
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Re: Optimal Protein?

Postby Stavia » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:47 pm

I've been eating far too much protein. Like double....A lesson here for me or us is maybe not to look at macronutrient percentages but absolute values. I was watching the grams carbs but not the grams protein!!!

Yesterday slashed the protein to 50ish grams and kept carbs at 70 grams. This resulted in a 60% fat percentage. Woke at my usual glucose of 5.2ish and ketones 0.4. Still fasting at 10am (not hungry, got busy oiling the deck table) and ketones 0.6. Onwards n upwards...

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Julie G
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Re: Optimal Protein?

Postby Julie G » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:54 pm

George- fixed; thanks ;)

Interesting, Stavia. I did the same when I first started HFLC and I felt like a stuffed turkey- bleh. I naturally gravitate towards lower protein (lifelong preference) and feel much better with less. I think your assessment of your wacky BG is right on the money; congrats on figuring it out :D

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Re: Optimal Protein?

Postby Stavia » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:16 pm

Happy dance!!

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Re: Optimal Protein?

Postby Tincup » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:37 pm

I recall seeing a story on guys seriously into CR some years ago. The CR lowered the guy's testosterone so much he had issues holding onto muscle and sex was out of the question. I think he had low energy, too. I've not studied the CR stuff in detail, but that guy's life is not attractive to me. There is some balance in being able to live well and not just long...

A friend who is a dietician in nursing homes told me their metric is 1g/kg. Ron Rosedales is more like 0.7 g/kg. 20 g's of protein for me would be 0.25 g/kg.
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Re: Optimal Protein?

Postby Welcomeaboard » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:21 pm

Essential amino acids.

Protein energy malnutrition.

Proteins turn genes on that make proteins.

With today's thread output on so many topics I am surprised I am still alive, the only way to confirm existence of life was to type.


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