Increasing cancer risk by taking b vitamins

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SusanJ
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Re: Increasing cancer risk by taking b vitamins

Postby SusanJ » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:42 pm

N, methylation is much bigger than just MTHFR. A quick look at the diagram in the methylation wiki post could give you other ideas of where to treat. On top on MTHFR, I also have BHMT variants (and many more methylation related variants), so that's why I cut back folates because my RBC was good, but upped TMG (Life Extension, 500mg twice a day). That strategy drove mine from 10.7 to 6.1.

50% of homocysteine is recycled by BHMT, so it that path doesn't work, you will get high homocysteine.

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Re: Increasing cancer risk by taking b vitamins

Postby Julie G » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:43 pm

Quick reminder: Two trials have shown cognitive benefits of treatment with B vitamins in those with high homocysteine:

• FACIT trial of folic acid in the Netherlands
• VITACOG trial of folic acid, B12 and B6 in people with Mild Cognitive Impairment (Oxford)

Unlike many previous trials or meta-analyses, the VITACOG trial was particularly well designed in that it used subjects already DXed with MCI and treated them with folic acid, B6 and B12 (checking pre & post homocysteine) over a period of 2 years.

In those with high homocysteine at baseline, the B vitamin treatment:
-Slowed whole brain atrophy by 53%
-Slowed atrophy of specific brain regions by 90%
-Slowed, or stopped, further cognitive decline

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Re: Increasing cancer risk by taking b vitamins

Postby Tincup » Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:41 pm

In our last call, Gundry referred to this abstract he published. Saying that weight loss increases homosysteine.

It has recently been suggested that homocysteine levels rise following bariatric- surgical induced weight loss; the mechanism by which this occurs is unclear. It is also unknown whether this occurs with dietary change induced weight loss. We followed serum homocysteine levels in 300 consecutive pts with Metabolic Syndrome and/or CAD who enrolled in a lifestye modification program that included a weight loss goal. The first 200 pts (Group A) had no high dose folic acid or B-Vitamin supplementation during initial weight loss but took a regular multivitamin; the subsequent 100 pts (Group B) received 2000 mcg Folic Acid and one B-100 tablet/day (supplying 100 mcg of each B Vitamin). Serum Homocysteine levels were measured at a single lab at baseline and every three months during followup, which now extends to 3 years. Pts ages range from 19 to 87, M/F ratio 3/2, and include all ethnicities, which did not differ between groups. Homocysteine levels rose from 9.7+/-2.1 umol/L to 14.5 +/-2.0 in the 1st 6 months of wt loss (mean 15 lbs) in Group A; in contrast, serum homocysteine levels in Group B remained constant (10.1+/-2 to 10.3+/-2.3) during the same time period despite similar wt loss (mean 17lbs) p<.0001 B vs A and A baseline vs A 6 months. At 6 months, Group A was started on Group B’s high dose regimen: at 9 months, Group A’s levels fell to 11.2+/-2.5, p<0.001 vs 6month group A. We conclude that during weight loss induced by dietary changes, serum homocysteine levels dramatically increase unless patients are given high dose folic acid and B Vitamin supplementation. Unless treated, elevated homocysteine levels induced by “healthly” weight loss, may have serious negative cardiovascular health consequences.
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Re: Increasing cancer risk by taking b vitamins

Postby lumia » Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:05 pm

A brief question. I don't have any MTHFR mutations (i.e. I'm HomRef in the well-known ones). Does that mean I need not use the 5-MTHF form and use plain old folic acid instead?

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Re: Increasing cancer risk by taking b vitamins

Postby apod » Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:16 pm

lumia wrote:A brief question. I don't have any MTHFR mutations (i.e. I'm HomRef in the well-known ones). Does that mean I need not use the 5-MTHF form and use plain old folic acid instead?

In the absence of MTHFR polymorphisms with healthy homocysteine levels, I would still go with natural food-based folate as opposed to synthetic folic acid. I hit 100%+DV for B9 easily from plants and I'm not sure if more is better wrt cancer risk -- supplementation is probably unnecessary. These look interesting for full-spectrum folate (although the dosage might get up there after eating lots of plants) :

http://www.nutrigold.com/Folate-Folic-Acid
Folic acid refers to the oxidized, synthetic compound used in dietary supplements and food fortification, whereas folate refers to the various tetrahydrofolate (THF) derivatives naturally found in food. Unlike natural folates (from food sources) that are metabolized to THF in the small intestines, synthetic folic acid must undergo initial reduction and methylation in the liver, where it is converted to THF in the presence of the enzyme dihydrofolate reductase (DHFR). However, because DHFR has low activity in the human liver, insufficient amounts of synthetic folic acid are converted to the THF form, resulting in unnatural and potentially harmful levels of unmetabolized folic acid entering the circulatory system. So, when adequate folate consumption from dietary sources is not an option, it is best to supplement with whole-food folate from food sources to minimize risk of deficiency.

https://system.na2.netsuite.com/core/me ... 1&_xt=.pdf
Research is clear that the consumption of the synthetic form of the B vitamin folate (folic acid) used in fortified foods and nutritional supplements is contributing to the worldwide cancer epidemic. Unlike the natural forms of folate, this synthetic form of folic acid must be converted to a natural form in the body. Yet it is simply not possible to convert the huge amount of folic acid we are now being exposed to since the introduction of food fortification in the US in 1998, and from the increased use of nutritional supplements containing folic acid. This lack of conversion results in a build-up of "unmetabolized" synthetic folic acid in the blood. This synthetic unmetabolized folic acid increases cellular proliferation, including that in cancerous tumors.

NatureFolate™ is a blend of natural folates including those found in foods such as spinach and eggs. The folate forms found in NatureFolate™ are 5-methyltetrahydrofolate (5-MTHF) and 5-formyl tetrahydrofolate (5-FTHF). These are safe, natural forms which are quickly and easily utilized by the body. NatureFolate™ provides the proven benefits of optimal folate supplementation without the risks associated with unmetabolized, synthetic folic acid.

Methyl-b12 might still be useful, particularly with a low meat intake and mB12 polymorphisms. With a low meat intake, and in the absence of methyl-b12 polymorphisms with healthy homocysteine levels, hydroxy-b12 might be more appropriate.

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Re: Increasing cancer risk by taking b vitamins

Postby Ski » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:00 pm

I see now that its also being implicated in higher risk for lung cancer in males.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/884611

I take a daily B6-50mg/Quatrefolic folate-800mcg/B12(methylcobalamin)-500mcg/TMG-500mg formula and pondering backing off a little.

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Re: Increasing cancer risk by taking b vitamins

Postby NewRon » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:19 pm

This is what I take, a lot less than you, Ski:

http://www.jarrow.com/product/57/B-Right
Apo E4/E4, Male, Age 56

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Re: Increasing cancer risk by taking b vitamins

Postby SusanJ » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:01 pm

Ski, the study doesn't surprise me.

Are you taking these because of MTHFR or homocysteine or both? Have you done any testing of your B vitamin levels?

I found at 800 mcg methylfolate, I was testing at >24 ng/mL whereas normal is considered >5.4. So I cut folate in half. My B12 came in normal range, but my methylmalonic acid (MMA) was 84 nmol/L, which is just out of the low range. MMA is a better measure of B12, because it shows if you body is actually using the B12. If MMA is high, you need more B12; if it's low, then you can cut back B12.

In general, I feel it's not good to take mega doses of B vitamins if you don't have to - they affect so many pathways that we don't understand, including cell division. If you look at methotrexate, an old school cancer med, it inhibits the action of an enzyme called dihydrofolate reductase. This enzyme normally converts folic acid into a substance called tetrahydrofolic acid, which is essential for the synthesis of new genetic material (DNA) within cells.

It's definitely a goldilocks thing with Bs. That's why I always advise starting low and going up until you get the results you need in your labs.

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Re: Increasing cancer risk by taking b vitamins

Postby SusanJ » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:12 pm

Oh, and for those of you who haven't read the article, they are talking about:

In this study, men who were taking the highest dose of vitamin B supplements (and who were found to have a two-fold increased risk in lung cancer compared with men not taking supplements) had been taking B6 at 20 mg daily and B12 at 55 µg daily for 10 years.


And that B12 amount is very low compared to what Bredesen and other function docs recommend - they often go right to 1,000 mcg (or 1 mg) of B12 per day.

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Re: Increasing cancer risk by taking b vitamins

Postby Ski » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:47 pm

SusanJ wrote: Are you taking these because of MTHFR or homocysteine or both? Have you done any testing of your B vitamin levels?

Susan - I am hetero on these two...MTHFR C677T and MTHFR A1298C. And yes my homocysteine was at 11 and after being on that formula it dropped down to 7. No, Ive never checked my B levels.


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