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Fish Oil

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
ApropoE4
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Re: Fish Oil

Postby ApropoE4 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:03 pm

The study, however, did not see these structural effects in E4 carriers:

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Res ... ext%2BNews

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Juliegee
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Re: Fish Oil

Postby Juliegee » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:31 pm

Whatcha' think ApropoE4- are you still supplementing? I am.

I go back and forth on this one. My hope is that E4 carriers fail to show improvement when only supplementing with fish oil because it's not enough- alone. I'm hopeful that combining it with a healthful diet, exercise, antioxidants, etc. would help us be able to benefit too...

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Re: Fish Oil

Postby ApropoE4 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:43 am

I eat so much fish and shellfish (living in Japan right now) that I don't need supplements. I'm still on turmeric + ashwagandha + low calorie + running and that's it. Realistically I believe that e4 do not benefit much from supplements or diet (except in that a very unhealthy diet obviously makes things worse), and that the only hope is in the form of structure correcting molecules.

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Re: Fish Oil

Postby Juliegee » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:43 pm

Sounds good, ApropoE4. I agree it's best to get everything from the food itself. I'm also a huge proponent of exercise and CR. Sounds like you're on a good regimen. I know Rudy Tanzi is big on ashwagandha. I need to look into that one. Maybe consider starting a thread to teach us all.

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Russ
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Re: Fish Oil

Postby Russ » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:24 pm

Russ
E3/4
Eat whole, real, flavorful food - fresh and in season... and mix it up once in a while.

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Juliegee
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Re: Fish Oil

Postby Juliegee » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:49 pm

Nice find, Russ. Dr. Dayspring has long held that opinion. I heard him say on a podcast that those who carry ApoE4 should "drown" themselves in Omega-3s.

Looks like you have to register for this... or remember your password ;) Here's Dr. Dayspring's comment:


It has long been “received wisdom” that patients who carry 1 or 2 copies of the apoE4 gene “do not benefit” from taking omega-3 fatty acids. This view was based on a few small studies that showed trends for LDL-C to increase more in apoE4 carriers than noncarriers when taking fish oil supplements. This dogma had a chilling effect on the use of omega-3 fatty acids in this patient group, which constitutes about 30% of Americans. We undertook a study based on over 130,000 patient samples analyzed at HDL, Inc. We hypothesized that patients with a higher Omega-3 Index (a valid biomarker of omega-3 intake) who were also apoE4 carriers would have a higher LDL-C than noncarriers with the same high Omega-3 Index. However, we found that the relationship between LDL-C and the Omega-3 Index was not different between carriers and noncarriers. In other words, we found no evidence that there was a differential effect of omega-3 fatty acids on lipids as a function of apoE4 status. In any event, the dogma was likely flawed from the outset by defining “benefit” only in terms of effects on LDL-C. The anti-atherogenic effects of omega-3 are largely mediated by nonlipoprotein-based mechanisms… so even if LDL-C (or even LDL-P) was a little higher in apoE4 carriers on fish oil than noncarriers, that would not mean that omega-3 fatty acids were of “no benefit” to those patients. Further, apoE4 patients are not only at increased risk for developing CHD than non-carriers, they are also at higher risk for Alzheimer’s disease, and new data are now showing that omega-3 fatty acids may be able to slow the development of both diseases. Thus, if anybody should be treated to target Omega-3 Index levels of 8% or more, it is the apoE4 carrier.


FWIW, this also concurs with Drs. Grundy & Perlmutters' advice for E4s.

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Gilgamesh
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Re: Fish Oil

Postby Gilgamesh » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:14 am

I'm still skeptical. BUT, anyone have access to the most recent papers here? --

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Dayspring

Esp.:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24595593

(Though that study is not an intervention trial with morbidity or mortality as an endpoint, and that's what we need!)

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Stavia
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Re: Fish Oil

Postby Stavia » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:22 am

I may be able to get full text of the one you want. Give me few days.

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Ski
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Re: Fish Oil

Postby Ski » Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:06 am

Fish Oil.pdf
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Juliegee
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Re: Fish Oil

Postby Juliegee » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:25 am

Good find, Skibike. Thanks for sharing.

Taking a wider view, it is well known that ε4 patients are at higher risk for CHD [5, 17] and for Alzheimer’s disease [22]. Even if the efficacy of fish oil supplements as treatments for CHD is in question [23, 24], several studies have shown that higher omega-3 fatty acid blood levels are associated with decreased risk for all-cause mortality [25–28] and dementia [29]. Direct consumption of EPA and DHA (whether from fish oil supplements or oily fish) is by far the most important determinant of the Omega-3 Index [30–33]. Their safety profile is strong [34], and thus, their risk/benefit ratio is favorable. Finally, because ε4 carriers may require higher doses of EPA+DHA to raise the Omega-3 Index (as suggested in some [35, 36] but not other [10] studies), patients carrying this allele may be the most likely to benefit from an increased omega-3 fatty acid intake.


This basically supports my position on n-3 supplementation for E4s. Yes, we have trouble benefitting; but that doesn't seem to be a reason NOT to try. As this paper and Dr. Dayspring's commentary indicate, E4s may be the population that needs Omega-3 fatty acids the MOST.


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