Gundry's Vital Reds

[circular]

Hi Frank, thanks for that breakdown. If the most effective delivery for brain treatments is by inhaling, I can only imagine what air pollution is doing to our brains.

I'm surprised most PP don't get into the bloodstream from the gut. Maybe most of their brain benefit is by influencing the biome's signaling up the vegas nerve?

[Julie G]

Stacysol, thanks for sharing your experience. I love that Vitals Reds seems to be helping you. I suspect it's helping me as well. I just finished my 4 mile trek and felt like running a lot more than usual. Different, in a good way .

I'll be on the lookout for an introduction, Frank. Thank you, my friend. You're correct, per my HLA-DR/DQ haplotyping, I am not mold sensitive. My issue is purely post-Lyme. It's still not good for me in terms of a cumulative exposure, but at least I can detoxify. Its very interesting to hear your thoughts on whether or not polyphenols can help with neurodegneration. Keep in mind that E4 carriers also have leakier BBBs, especially those of us with CIRS. That can work both against us or in our favor. Also, Gundry is recommending this for heart health. If it prevents oxidation of LDL and mitigates inflammation, I can't help but think we'd get systemic benefits.

[harpsicon]

I'm not a patient of Dr. Gundry, but I did meet him last summer at the Boulder gathering, and was mightily impressed. He went to the other lectures, went to dinner with the apoe4.info group where he ate his own diet and answered questions at length. He answered my casual questions at length as well, cogently and with the data that comes from experience. He was charging $500/hour for phone consults at the time, so I felt that I got thousands of dollars of great advice for free. This hardly seems to be the modus operandi of a money-seeking quack!

Often physicians of my acquaintance, when asking why I look better, go off on a rant when I talk about diet and supplements - usually about double-blind experiments and the like. They are mostly not in very good shape, and would probably kill for my blood work! fwiw, in three months on Gundry my total cholesterol dropped 40 points to around 150 in both NMR and standard measure, and my HDL > LDL > TG. Uric acid down, homocysteine way down, kidney function up, HbA1c down a lot to 5.2.

I think the question that must be asked, by the most skeptical and scientific among us, is who are you going to trust - a practitioner with a lifetime of experience including a couple of decades pushing a patient regimen of nutrition and bloodwork which is very effective; or some expensive double-blind lab tests, where you have to ask 1) who paid for them and 1a) why did they get done, as opposed to some other expensive test; and 2) does the test design actually translate into real knowledge, or does it confound different variables - kinds of carbs, fats, etc.

As for me, I'll take the practitioner any day! Someone who deals with real people, and can say with assurance, "We have seen this many times, and what works is to ........." When this is bolstered by popular support - people who have been cured or had their lives vastly improved do tell their friends and families! - then you would seem to have the best of all possible worlds. (And negative publicity also spreads very quickly, especially today.)

Gundry has passed up the opportunity to do hundreds, if not thousands, of very lucrative surgeries. How many hundreds of jars of Vital Reds would he have to sell to make up for just one surgical fee?! I honestly believe that he must regret his choices financially to some degree. If he thus decided to literally bottle what he knows and recommends for the good of his patients in order to level the playing field as it were, how is this a bad thing? Money-back guarantee, and he's been working a long time outside the big medicine/surgery field because he thinks he can do better with a natural result?? Who here would prefer to go to a random cardiologist with their issues, and be treated to the usual invasive surgeries and pointless dietary advice, in exchange for a lot of money? Given the typical results, who are the actual "quacks" here?

[Sandy57]

Julie I just sent you an email with the Kona Red info, please look for it. Also thank you for your feedback. I like that you are aware that even though you can detox from mold, you understand total toxic load will still be hard on your system. So get air purifiers and try to avoid as much of the construction as possible. I know after a year of it, easier said then done. The more you have to detox mold burdens, the less glutathione you have for your other issues like Lyme.

As for Vital Reds I agree systematically there will be a benefit and surely for cardiovascular issues. I will give Dr. Guidry credit; in that I have never heard him promote his product for neuro degenerative diseases per se. I also do not think it would be harmful in any way for brain health, and possibly helpful. But how much of the PP will get in the brain is ABSOLUTELY unsettled science. We just don't know. Some through blood and I agree the BBB is weaker in e4s, so possibly more for this genotype. Vital Reds will not raise BDNF much and is not promoted as such. Coffeeberry or the Coffee Fruit extract will increase BDNF. However, they work in different ways and complex pathways and I will not get that deep in this post.

At this point I am poor anyway, LOL, so I might give it a try. Ok hope something good comes out of your communication with Brad from Kona Reds and keep me in the loop. I did ask a question of you from results with coffeefruit in my email and hopefully you can answer it.
Mahalo Frank

[Sandy57]

Wow two typos and a grammar mistake in one post, above. Edited.

Julie please re-read my last paragraph, it might not make sense until you read my email.
Ok please let me know you got my email.
Frank

For what it is worth, based on another post today about mold and mycotoxins; I told Bredesen 16 months ago, that from my research I bet there is a biotoxin, metal, viral or bacterial element to most cases of AD. The reason I like the guy, he said you can't rule it out and time will tell. Most top docs and researchers will not entertain advice or suggestions from others. He listens.

These variables are just amazing at hiding or being masked by other issues and symptoms. Also not easy to treat, after a two year fight with Sandy we have maybe just broke even. No real gains, but not major progression.

Frank

[circular]

But how much of the PP will get in the brain is ABSOLUTELY unsettled science. We just don't know. Some through blood and I agree the BBB is weaker in e4s, so possibly more for this genotype.

I just finished listening to this great (I think) interview with Dr. Gundry. He talks about how misunderstood polyphenols are and that it's how they change the behavior of gut bacteria that they work their benefits, not through direct antioxidant effects I wouldn't rule out some of both, but it sounds like there's more to the story about how Vital Reds is intended to work.

[Fiver]

Yep. There are thousands of (poly)phenols, and conjugated versions of each. All have different bioavailabilities. Many influence gut bacteria, some boost plasma anti-oxidant levels, a few get to the brain. (Yea, green tea phenols!) Some inhibit AB aggregation in test tubes (for whatever that is worth). One potential advantage of the GVR and similar formulations is the diversity of phenolics. That's a really long list - I imagine they source bruised fruit and peels from all over, but that's just my imagination - so maybe the bases are covered.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2835915/
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/727.full

[Julie G]

Great insight, Tom. We're lucky to have our in-house polyphenol expert. I look forward to seeing you in LA. We have around a half dozen members or more who will be attending.

Frank, your observations to Dr. B are very insightful and are proving to be true. I can't overstate enough how huge biotoxins are turning out to be. The fascinating part is that this toxic mechanism actually seems to be driving the other subtypes (1, 1.5 & 2) as biotoxins affect metabolism, hormones, everything. I got your email and will respond shortly- thanks!

[Julie G]

A new study backs up Circ's hypothesis about how polyphenols (Vital Reds) may work.

I'm surprised most PP don't get into the bloodstream from the gut. Maybe most of their brain benefit is by influencing the biome's signaling up the vegas nerve?

It looks like going through the gut may be key to deriving benefits due to the metabolites left behind that are also dependent upon the host's gut microbiome. A new study suggests that this mechanism may be responsible for the neuroprotective effect (yes, neuroprotective effect ) of wine. Be cautious in your interpretation of this information as it contradicts earlier research demonstrating (from an epidemiological perspective) that E4 carriers, who consume alcohol, experience greater cognitive decline.

See this PR: Researchers have now found out how wine compounds are protective against neuronal death: they should pass through your stomach first. Fulltext of the current study can be found below:

Neuroprotective Effects of Selected Microbial-Derived Phenolic Metabolites and Aroma Compounds from Wine in Human SH-SY5Y Neuroblastoma Cells and Their Putative Mechanisms of Action
http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/ ... 00003/full

[apod]

A new study suggests that this mechanism may be responsible for the neuroprotective effect (yes, neuroprotective effect ) of wine. Be cautious in your interpretation of this information as it contradicts earlier research demonstrating (from an epidemiological perspective) that E4 carriers, who consume alcohol, experience greater cognitive decline.

There's always "dealcoholized" wine:
https://www.arielvineyards.com/wines/ca ... ignon.html (although it's 10g sugar in a 8oz glass with a pinch still of alcohol.)