Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

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Stavia
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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby Stavia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:58 pm

I was thinking, if they are abundant in brain tissue, shouldnt we just eat brains?
(Trying to think of amusing zombie reference but failing miserably)

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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby Jan » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:04 pm

Stavia wrote:I was thinking, if they are abundant in brain tissue, shouldnt we just eat brains?
(Trying to think of amusing zombie reference but failing miserably)

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I too occasionally muse on what to do in an apocalypse ...
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Re: RE: Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby Stavia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:41 pm

Jan wrote:
Stavia wrote:I was thinking, if they are abundant in brain tissue, shouldnt we just eat brains?
(Trying to think of amusing zombie reference but failing miserably)

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I too occasionally muse on what to do in an apocalypse ...
Well my thought is flamethrower but my son feels it's not good because then flaming zombies are coming at one...


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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby Stavia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:09 pm

Searcher wrote:
Stavia wrote:
Egg yolks have arachidonic acid, but an overdose of that increases inflammation and becomes counter-productive.

thanks Searcher. Dayan says they do not exist in their ultimate form in any food, but have to be synthesized. I wonder if the step from high precursors in diet to high ultimate levels has been shown in any studies.

Do you have evidence about this arachidonic acid snippet that I have quoted? I'm very interested.


An example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1907059
There'll be more. There's a study somewhere of the number of eggs consumed per week correlated with adverse health outcomes (I recall it went up to quite high numbers of eggs per week).



Thanks Searcher. I do of course know that arachidonic acid is an inflammatory mediator, I was asking specifically if dietary arachidonic acid from eggs has been linked to raised inflammation in vivo. Particularly in the context of a population such as ours who are supplementing omega 3's. For instance - I supplement a gram of omega3's a day plus I eat fish a lot, and have zero industrial seed oils. Any evidence that 2 eggs, say two or three times a week, would be harmful in the context of a good omega3:6 ratio in my diet and confirmed on blood sample?

I did a google search and all I found was opinion (either biased pro or against).

Thanks for the tip on source of plasmalogens in food.

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Re: RE: Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby Jan » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:54 pm

Stavia wrote:
Jan wrote:
Stavia wrote:I was thinking, if they are abundant in brain tissue, shouldnt we just eat brains?
(Trying to think of amusing zombie reference but failing miserably)

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I too occasionally muse on what to do in an apocalypse ...
Well my thought is flamethrower but my son feels it's not good because then flaming zombies are coming at one...


Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


There's only one sane remaining option. We must get our hands on a Tardis ...
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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby Tincup » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:01 pm

Wonder what levels of plasmalogens the vegans have :lol:
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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby Stavia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:04 pm

Tincup wrote:Wonder what levels of plasmalogens the vegans have :lol:


well, you and Theresa are almost vegan.... ;)

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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby Stavia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:09 pm

Searcher wrote:Some other good natural sources of plasmalogens :

Lamb brain (18 mg/g)
Mussels (2.5 mg/g)

Plasmalogens survive passage through the stomach better if the gastric acidity is limited, such as by a fatty meal.

Plasmalogen supplements are already marketed in the Far East, for Alzheimer's.

http://www.oilsfats.org.nz/wp-content/u ... v-2016.pdf


Searcher thank you for this!! Extremely helpful, as you always are.
I live where the NZ mussels actually live and eat them at least once a week. In the spirit of going straight to the source rather than try and buy krill oil from overseas, I will increase this frequency rather than increase eggs. I don't fancy lamb brains but one does what one must I guess....

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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby Orangeblossom » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:46 am

With Krill oil I thought it may be possible to replace other Omega 3 fish oils with it and also get the benefits, but when I checked the levels of DHA were pretty low. I suppose it would be Ok to take it alongside other fish oils...as well to get the DHA benefits.

In terms of the eggs, I was also thinking of them being a good source of Choline. I wonder about possible other sources of Choline. Can it be taken in a supplement? I think you can get some kind of powdered egg yolk, wonder if other Choline supplements are any good. I prefer to get things from general food if possible. But not brains! ;) (wonder if can get a powdered Brain tablet- now there's a thought!)

Ah, Krill oil seems to contain a Choline itself called Marine Lecithin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krill_oil

"their population has decreased dramatically both due to climate change and human harvesting" :? feel a bit guilty now..

also "Studies have shown toxic residues in Antarctic krill and fish" Maybe best check they are good sources...

More on the cholines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphatidylcholine

In terms of the production of plasmalogens in vegans, don't we make it ourselves in the liver, do we really need extra food sources?

I wonder why it is reduced in people as they get older, and if that is in any way related to APOE4.

Not according to the presentation, and from the article above, it confirms this, saying

"Tissue plasmalogen levels also relate to organism age. Healthy neonates have significantly lower erythrocyte plasmalogen content than older children [9]. The total amount of brain plasmalogens increases dramatically during the developmental phase of myelination and reaches maximum levels by around age 30 years [10]. Finally, plasmalogen content of tissues generally decreases in aged mammals [11,12]."

Also "Thus far there has been no correlation between plasmalogen deficiency and ApoE genotype, implicating that plasmalogen deficiency is an independent marker [83]."

So it seems to just be a general ageing thing, rather than specific to APOE4.

From the presentation:

"Although the population average decreases over time, this decrease does not occur in everyone - the top 10% of the elderly have levels similar to young persons" I wonder what their secret is?

This may shed a clue, "Serum plasmalogens levels tended to fall in significant coronary stenosis and abnormal glucose tolerance"- also showed links with higher HDL levels and higher LDL particle size, and lower HBA1C - (higher levels) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17332687
However, it concludes that this may be modest and mainly due to ageing, and ageing is linked to reduction in number or function of peroxisomes in the liver. (seems to be generally related to ageing http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10 ... ce390aefe1

Maybe there is a way these peroxisomes function can be preserved? (it mentioned some things about TOR, calorie restriction etc in the article but found it all a bit much for now. Also about IDE (insulin degrading enzyme) and that being made in the peroxisomes as well.

other useful article here on peroxisomes https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 3912000786

Something else I noticed was that the article mentioned

"Secondary plasmalogen deficiency could result from decreased synthesis and/or increased degradation."- it said about oxidation of the plasmalogen for example in the membranes. So it could be the case that although it is still being produced, it is being degraded more. This was in reference to AD. It also mentioned "it remains to be determined whether plasmalogen loss is a contributing cause or downstream effect of pathology. It may be both"

So as it seems to generally reduce as we get older, the next question I have is would supplements make a difference? Do we know that taking e.g. Krill oil would mean it would help replenish it, or the supplement mentioned previously?

I just had a wierder thought than people eating brains. It seems human breast milk is one of the sources. imagine older people being fed breast milk. :? (from a cup I mean!)

The article mentions alkylglycerols, (found in such oils https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2953404/) however "the naturally occurring alkylglycerols, chimyl alcohol, batyl alcohol and 1-0-octadecenyl-sn-glycerol (selachyl alcohol), would need to be provided together in order to recover each plasmalogen class" and that "Overall, these studies indicate that sustained treatment periods with plasmalogen precursors will be needed to overcome turnover and reach steady state physiological levels in brain."

From Stavia's OP - "it will be available as a medical food in the future" - so yes it seems this may be something which might happen.

Stavia I noticed you mentioned emailing him for clarification on this slide and slides 74-76. I'd be really grateful if you could post with an update when you get this. Thanks so much. I'm a bit confused about the role of plasmalogens and the reverse cholesterol transport / HDL issue. Many thanks.

It will be interesting to hear about the results of the trials. Will any of you be signing up for these perhaps?

So grateful for this group and hearing about this new information.

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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby Tincup » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:44 am

Stavia wrote:
Tincup wrote:Wonder what levels of plasmalogens the vegans have :lol:


well, you and Theresa are almost vegan.... ;)


True, however about 50% of our days are not vegan and those meals have eggs, shellfish & fish. Plus we consume a lot of DHA in supplement form.
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