Dr. Gabrielle Lyon - Benefits of Higher Protein

[circular]

More general:

Evolving Past Alzheimer's Podcast

A bit of a deeper dive including ketosis:

High Intensity Health Podcast

I would love to hear comments from all sides. She has a different perspective on MTOR=bad, high meat=cancer etc.

I think, not being educated in this at all, that I may lean more in her direction than, say, Dr. Gundry's 20 mg/day approach, at least for me, although I may never have eaten quite as much protein as she recommends. May give this a try!!!

Unfortunately a high protein diet that uses high quality proteins is sooooooooo expensive!

[circular]

2010 review:

Evidence that protein requirements have been significantly underestimated

[circular]

Recent advances in determining protein and amino acid requirements in humans.

[Orangeblossom]

There was a recent post on here with a study showing older folk who ate more protein had a lower risk of AD. I can't seem to find it though.

[circular]

Thanks, that would be good to add here. One of the things that has caught my attention about Dr. Lyon's research is just how much protein may be not only beneficial but necessary, even at young ages. And she is saying -- much like with AD pathology -- that the muscle changes toward sarcopenia are beginning decades before apparent muscle wasting and are driving the other sequelae! Of course almost anyone 15 years deep into a rabbit hole is at risk of thinking their area of focus is the cause of everything, but I think it's possible that the low protein popularity among many in our forum may have a real downside. Another paradox to digest, which Dr. Lyon partially does in the second recording.

Wish I had more time to summarize or list key points. I listen to podcasts while in the car and am too busy these days to do much else with them but post a link if I think they're significant.

[Orangeblossom]

I found the post about the higher protein and lower risk of AD - here it is. It is about high fibre as well as protein, too.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4322&hilit=protein

Valter de Longo does recommend higher protein as people get older, but less when younger due to the MTor / longevity idea, I noticed.
I think there is more about it in the post.

I wonder about genes for IGF-1 which seems to be linked. If you have genes linked to lower IGF-1, wonder if it means could tolerate more protein. Overall it seems from the other post to be good plan to have more with increased age. But it still seems a bit confusing in terms of us younger people. I guess lifestyle could matter too, as in how much weightlifting and exercise people do?

It is interesting that there seems to be two completely different views on MTor, isn't it. Also, in terms of the post on BMI and it being higher being protective, well that would also tie in with increased protein intake, possibly, as a measure of body mass / weight not just fat mass...people with sarcopenia would have a low BMI...and weight loss was linked to early signs of dementia even decades before.

[circular]

I think people with high BMI can still have sarcopenia? Especially if they’re sedentary?

I’m in the car listening to the second link again. At about 23:00 she talks about the mTOR issue. She says the studies linking it to cancer were in obese mice and that it’s the chronic elevated insulin in the SAD diet that’s raising the risk of cancer, not the mTOR signaling. She says when you stimulate mTOR with amino acids it’s increasing mTOR in muscle tissue for muscle growth, but that there’s no evidence it’s contributing to cancer in other cell types.

She also says protein doesn’t raise your insulin and blood sugar over time. She says the insulin spike is a very brief phase-one spike to stimulate muscle metabolism.

Of course I can’t critque all this but find it interesting that she has been deep into muscle science specifically for many years and has opinions about protein that are different from what I’ve been taking in.

Would love to hear Rhonda Patrick interview her.

[Orangeblossom]

I think people with high BMI can still have sarcopenia? Especially if they’re sedentary?

Yes, that's right they can, but people with a higher BMI can also be people like body builders, too with high muscle mass, it doesn't distinguish between fat and muscle.

[circular]

Ah, got it.

I listened to two more videos of her last night. I misparaphrased what she said about mTOR here:

She says the studies linking it to cancer were in obese mice and that it’s the chronic elevated insulin in the SAD diet that’s raising the risk of cancer, not the mTOR signaling.

I think she says mTOR is involved in cancer but not because of high protein, which she recommends at meals (at bare minimum 30 gm each) with 3-4 hours in between without snacking, so the muscles’ mTOR system is reset before the next meal, when you must have enough leucine to signal it again. Constant or ‘chaotic’ feeding of carbs will prolong the mTOR signaling in tissues that can then become cancerous.

She hits on a lot of other areas and is focused on nutrition and brain health too. She did a fellowship in geriatrics and nutrition at Washingon University. According to her, lack of ‘correct’ understanding about our protein needs and muscles (‘the organ of longevity’) is causing muscle breakdown decades before we realize it, and that is impacting insulin sensitivity etc.

With so much talk here about low percentage protein diets (she says thinking about percentage protein is missing the science behind how it works and the necessity for adequate leucine), and 20 gm per day limits, I think her work and ideas really need some vetting for us. It’s sometimes hard to know if someone just sounds authoritative or actually is authoritative, but I have a hunch that her views on protein may be what will help me to the next level of health and aging better.

Maybe they’ve been described elsewhere here without her name (which doesn’t come up searching for it) and I missed it.

[marthaNH]

Thanks for this. Since I don't know what to believe, I'm trying to have it both ways. Aiming at about 1.3 gm protein per kg of body weight but trying to make sure animal sources are < or = to half of that. I glance at the methionine total on cronometer when I do one of those nutrition reports (averaging the days I reported) and if it averages around 1 gram (for my 60ish grams of protein) I'm happy. I didn't read that target anywhere, it's just easier to check that number, which tracks animal protein reasonably well, than to puzzle out which is the animal part of a lot of my dishes. Right now I'm right where I really don't want to lose any more weight but would like for my muscles to develop and my abdominal fat to gradually reduce. One of the benefits of tracking is that I was able to go back and look at past experience. Sure enough, a few years ago I had an extended period of successful weight maintenance combined with frequent/regular ketosis and that's what happened. I seemed to be eating a lot for my size, but waist kept getting smaller for a while. I think some "hitting the wall" issues I've had came from pushing fasting/ketosis TOO HARD when I wasn't carrying a lot of body fat. I had read that your body always had plenty of body fat but then read somewhere else that having it and having it successfully metabolizing (right word?) or available for fuel when you called on it were not the same thing. So I'm more careful now.