Detox / Cleanse / Water Fast?

[bexnews]

Has anyone experimented/researched an occasional cleanse or detox protocol? I am thinking it may be a way to help (not a silver bullet!) remove some toxins and metals from the body that shouldn't be there. I also had read a bit on a several-day water-fast as a way to cleanse the system and possibly help kill off any cancer growth. I guess one concern is the wrong protocol might create a gradient, pushing the bad stuff into the brain. Alternatively too much detox might remove the beneficial stuff in our system. I think there are some parallels to intermittent fasting, but I think detox might be a step further done less frequently. Had been turned on to Dr. Stephen Cabal recently who seemed to positively review Gundry & Plant Paradox and talked about APOE status - he has some detox protocols.... someone else suggested Dr. Morse who I guess promotes an all-fruit detox.

[Tincup]

I did 19 five-day water fasts between May 2018 and Jan 2019. I took a break and think I will do about 1/month. I did one in July and just completed another. I am doing them for autophagy reasons, but do not have a way to measure results. I've been keto adapted for 9 years so not a big deal. On my Gundry diet, I'm keto, but it isn't like the "typical" keto diet with <30g carbs/day. When I did a Cronometer.com study with a gram scale in March 2017, my average carbs were 122g/day, of which ~50 were fiber and the range was 88 to 180g/day. Last night to break ketosis had a snack of sorghum popcorn. My 1 hour blood sugar was 130, after being in the high 50's on the fast. Before I ate the sorghum, my blood sugar was around 58 and ketones 7.9. This morning, blood sugar was 89 and ketones 2.5. This afternoon blood sugar was 83 and ketones 3.5 (I always fast around 22 hours/day and have for over 3 years).

I may have to really carb up to keep me out of ketosis for a day or so.

In one group I'm part of, some people talk about doing various cleansing protocols during their fasts and I think Dr. Pompa has a number of videos posted talking about detox. The group is a closed FB group, so you'll have to apply if you want access. I have not pursued detox other than just water fasting and have no real knowledge or opinion.

[xactly]

I did 19 five-day water fasts between May 2018 and Jan 2019.

Tincup: I'm reading "The Longevity Diet" by Valter Longo. He recommends periodic fasting for everyone up to age 70. The frequency depends on the individual's health, and he spells out several schedules based on various conditions.

I'm 66, and I'd like to get a few of these underway done I hit age 70. Longo emphasizes the Fasting-Mimicking Diet from L-Nutra in the book, since he says it's easier for people to adhere to than a water fast; however, I'm thinking about getting my feet wet with a three-day water fast starting at noon on a Friday and ending at noon on a Monday.

Do you think there's a significant, additional benefit for a 5-day fast over a 3-day fast? I know you are also physically active. When you are doing a water fast, do you pursue your normal fitness activities or take it easy?

[Tincup]

First, to make it easier, you should be keto adapted before you fast. Otherwise fasts can be unpleasant.

A great reference as to how to do it safely is Jason Fung's . Within reason, the longer you go, the greater the benefit. This does not mean I think you should fast for a long time, especially at first. Fasting is like anything else, the more you do it the easier it gets. I'm assuming this is just for general health (cancer would be another story). Bone broth, as suggested by Fung, may be great as an aid the first time or two.

I remain active. I do notice that all day rock climbing in the Sun at 7,000', I get less energetic as I'm longer into a fast. A super slow lifting workout at the gym followed by a Tabata set on the fan rower is fine (I did one Saturday on day 3 and have done this on day 7. I noticed that skiing hard on the the steeps was more challenging on day 5.

My daughter has a colleague who did a 40 day water fast for lent. He also runs barefoot ultra marathons. She said he continued to train untill day 26. This guy also has celiac. He was from another city and they were working on a project together. At lunch he mentioned avoiding lectins, she was shocked that he knew about them (she follows a Gundry compliant diet). He said that after the fast, he could handle cross contamination at restaurants much better.

I'm 63. I plan on continuing regular fasts until I croak. There is a lady on this site who mentioned her 99 year old mother (who has at least 1 E4) would regularly fast. When she turned 90, the daughter convinced her she was too old to fast. Then the daughter ended up here and realized that one reason her mother might be doing so well is the fasting, so she let her return to fasting. Her mom still has good cognition.

I belong to several groups where very long fasts are not unusual - 20, 30, 40, 60, 90 or more recently 108 day fasts are not unusual. At least anecdotally, people have fixed many issues. Obviously, the risk goes up as you exetend the fast, especially if you are on meds. I'm not advocating others do this. This is why Longo is much more in favor of his FMD, Prolon, and limiting to 5 day fasts.

As an aside, the vegan version of Gundry's Phase 1 "cleanse" (in his Plant Paradox book) has similar properties to Longo's FMD for someone who wants to make it on their own. I asked him if he'd tested it for the effects on the things that Longo cares about, like lowered IGF-1. He said he had.

[xactly]

Tincup: Thanks for the info. I just downloaded the Kindle version of Fung's book, and I'm looking forward to reading it.

I'm also excited about being able to continue fasting past age 70. I was disappointed to think I might have missed the window on getting the benefits of enhanced autophagy and stem cell regeneration. I also like the idea that I can continue to work out and be active during a fast.

More questions, but I'll let Jason Fung answer them.

[slacker]

Has anyone experimented/researched an occasional cleanse or detox protocol? I am thinking it may be a way to help (not a silver bullet!) remove some toxins and metals from the body that shouldn't be there. I also had read a bit on a several-day water-fast as a way to cleanse the system and possibly help kill off any cancer growth. I guess one concern is the wrong protocol might create a gradient, pushing the bad stuff into the brain. Alternatively too much detox might remove the beneficial stuff in our system. I think there are some parallels to intermittent fasting, but I think detox might be a step further done less frequently. Had been turned on to Dr. Stephen Cabal recently who seemed to positively review Gundry & Plant Paradox and talked about APOE status - he has some detox protocols.... someone else suggested Dr. Morse who I guess promotes an all-fruit detox.

There are probably as many "detox" and "cleanse" protocols as people who offer them. Buyer beware. Do they sound too good to be true? What is the "scientific" basis or theory?
You will find reputable information on this site about intermittent fasting, food mimicking fasts, and 3-5 day fasts. Jason Fung and Valter Longo are good sources, mentioned earlier in this thread. Our members will not be experts on everyone's approach; there are too many out there.
I question an all-fruit detox, especially for those of use attempting ketosis and reversing insulin resistance.

[roxanne]

I personally drink a green juice daily after my workout. It's completely vegetable juice. (kale, cilantro or parsley, bok choy, ginger, celery, maybe collard greens. It's low calorie. My heavy metals panel was pretty good. I cannot say that's what helped for sure but I have been doing it for over 20 years.

Roxanne

[bexnews]

Hmm. Had posted and then that post disappeared. OK so I have done some homework and been reviewing Dr Pompa and Fung's work primarily. I am leaning to doing a water fast for autophagy and as an anti-cancer, and EMF healing measure primarily. Benefits to cardio health and strength are just bonuses. I am already frequently doing IF. A few questions I have, I am wondering if other's might comment?

1. Toxins release: Pompa claims as toxins are released in your body, there is the potential that they won't "get out" and might relocate elsewhere in your body. Pompa says you need to use something like his Bind/Cytodetox products if this happens, to bind the toxins to something so the body can remove them. I have not seen Dr Fung comment on this. I get the impression this may be something where you can try to fast and if you feel "bad" it might be this kind of toxins issue and you can then decide to take these other products. There seems to be a competing product to Cytodetox on Amazon for a fraction of the cost.

2. strictness of "water-only": Seems like some people are able to do just water. Some add salt to their water, stevia, do coffee/tea/broth. In Fung's book he makes the distinction that a fast over 42 hours should include broth to prevent issues on refeeding aka refeeding syndrome. He states "To help prevent problems in the post-fast refeeding period, there are two steps we
recommend:
>Do not make an extended fast a water-only fast. Drinking homemade bone broth provides phosphorus and other
proteins and electrolytes, which reduces the chances of developing refeeding syndrome. And to prevent vitamin
deficiency, take a daily multivitamin.
> Do all your usual activities, especially your exercise program, during your fast. This helps to maintain your muscles
and bones."

I know Gundry is particularly down on bone broth of red meats because of sugar-cancer issues - maybe do a chicken or fish broth?

3. fast length: Fung talks about shorter water-only fasts in lengths of up to 42 hours. Then he starts talking about fasts of 7 days+. Jimmy Moore and Fung state that part of their inspiration for diving into fasting to begin with was Dr Thomas Seyfried who suggested water fasting as a preventative tool against cancer. They state Seyfriend says to peridocially do a 7 day water fast. Elsewhere I have seen him talk about a 5 day water fast. Not sure if Seyfried's thinking has evolved or what. Also, I haven't studied to see how strict Seyfried is to water-only.

4. Pompa asks to measure glucose and ketones with a device - is that a nice to have? would strips be sufficient? what will this really tell me?

Any thoughts comments?

[NF52]

Hmm. Had posted and then that post disappeared.

Hi bexnews,
Major bummer that posts you and others ("me too") got deleted on Friday through what is commonly called "a server crash." Having a son who worked at a web-hosting company for several years, I know this server loss of data is never the user's fault, and is about as welcome as a food poisoning outbreak at kindergarten open house! Here's the post from the Board president: Technical Difficulties with our Host

Friends, you may have noticed that our site was down yesterday evening. I received an email from our host that they were experiencing a "major outage across all services." We're back up, but we seem to have been restored to an earlier time. Some of our more recent posts and threads aren't showing up this morning...Apologies to all who lost material. This was completely beyond our control.

Thank you for taking the time to re-post your detailed questions on fasting. You've obviously been doing some research! I'll leave it to those with expertise to reply to your specifics, but here's an excerpt from a post from Tincup, a seasoned veteran of fasts. I think the first sentence is critical.

First, to make it easier, you should be keto adapted before you fast. Otherwise fasts can be unpleasant.

A great reference as to how to do it safely is Jason Fung's . Within reason, the longer you go, the greater the benefit. This does not mean I think you should fast for a long time, especially at first. Fasting is like anything else, the more you do it the easier it gets. I'm assuming this is just for general health (cancer would be another story). Bone broth, as suggested by Fung, may be great as an aid the first time or two.

The quickest way to see a variety of viewpoints may be to use the Search option. You can find that by clicking on the magnifying glass on the top right tool bar on any forum page. For detailed suggestions and screenshots of how to search, and other tips, check the How-To Guide in the Wiki.

[mike]

2. strictness of "water-only": Seems like some people are able to do just water. Some add salt to their water, stevia, do coffee/tea/broth. In Fung's book he makes the distinction that a fast over 42 hours should include broth to prevent issues on

bexnews, I've done a few longer water-only fasts - 13, 17 and 19 day. When they say water-only, that does not mean no supplements. I took potassium citrate and some salt, along with my Thyroid and Adrenal supplements. Sometimes took Magnesium if I had cramps. As Tincup said, it gets easier each time. I was planning to just do a few days the first one, but already being keto adapted, it wasn't at all difficult, so I just kept going until my wife said I had to stop. 2nd time, likewise, it was other folks telling me to stop - I was still feeling fine. The last time I started having daily morning explosive diarrhea - not sure whether my gut lining was turning over or what - but I decided to quit because of that. After a few days of fasting, I would cut back on strenuous exercise, but kept up walking.