Fasting concerns

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JimH
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Fasting concerns

Postby JimH » Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:55 am

Hi Folks,

The intermittent fasting has been a bit of a challenge for me but I'm getting better at it. Now going 14 hours is no problem at all. I went 16 hours today and 18 hours one day last week. My understanding is that a benefit of fasting is to increase ketone levels. I'm using the "Keto-Mojo" device to monitor ketone and glucose levels. So far, when I've taken measurements first thing in the morning, glucose has been anywhere from 67 to 90 and ketone around 0.4. However, today, after 16 hours of fasting and a 40 minute racewalk (with pulse rate monitored to make sure I was in aerobic levels) my glucose was 119 and my ketones were 0.2. This is the highest my glucose has been but it has tended to be higher and ketones lower when I take it after a longer fasting. BTW, I consume no sugar, no high carb food and I've even been avoiding most fruit ( I eat about 3/4 cup of blueberries for lunch sometimes).

I know that adrenals tend to kick in to convert fats and proteins into glucose as blood sugar drops. I'd love to get some advice aboutmy observations!

Jim

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floramaria
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Re: Fasting concerns

Postby floramaria » Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:07 pm

JimH wrote:Hi Folks,

The intermittent fasting has been a bit of a challenge for me but I'm getting better at it. Now going 14 hours is no problem at all. I went 16 hours today and 18 hours one day last week. My understanding is that a benefit of fasting is to increase ketone levels. I'm using the "Keto-Mojo" device to monitor ketone and glucose levels. So far, when I've taken measurements first thing in the morning, glucose has been anywhere from 67 to 90 and ketone around 0.4. However, today, after 16 hours of fasting and a 40 minute racewalk (with pulse rate monitored to make sure I was in aerobic levels) my glucose was 119 and my ketones were 0.2. This is the highest my glucose has been but it has tended to be higher and ketones lower when I take it after a longer fasting. BTW, I consume no sugar, no high carb food and I've even been avoiding most fruit ( I eat about 3/4 cup of blueberries for lunch sometimes).

I know that adrenals tend to kick in to convert fats and proteins into glucose as blood sugar drops. I'd love to get some advice aboutmy observations!

Jim
Hi Jim, Congratulations on increasing your fasting hours. Our WiKi has an in depth article on blood sugar, which may help answer your question about why your blood sugar was higher after your exercise session. Here is a link:
https://www.apoe4.info/wiki/Blood_Sugar
You might also check out the WiKi entry on Ketosis. https://www.apoe4.info/wiki/Ketosis_and_Ketogenic_Diet
Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach
IFM/ Bredesen Training in Reversing Cognitive Decline (March 2017)
Qualified ReCODE Practitioner

circular
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Re: Fasting concerns

Postby circular » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:57 pm

In my experience the Keto-Mojo glucose readings weren’t that helpful for me unless I took three readings to get the best notion of where my glucose level might actually be. While the meter may be accurate within its margin of error (did I state that right?), that margin has seemed quite wide, up to 10 and maybe more difference, which isn’t accurate enough for my use. The ketone readings when taken twice at the same time have matched perfectly or very closely.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Fasting concerns

Postby Tincup » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:24 am

JimH wrote:I know that adrenals tend to kick in to convert fats and proteins into glucose as blood sugar drops. I'd love to get some advice about my observations!


Hi Jim,

As circular notes, there are variability in readings - this is not limited to the Keto Mojo, all at home meters/strips have variability. In this podcast, Dave Asprey interviews Dorian Greenow, the founder of Keto Mojo. He talks about this variability, not just for his product, but for others, too. Also best practices for the most consistent readings. I've been testing blood sugar for biohacking reasons since 2006 and have used many meters. I think KM is one of the more consistent ones, and especially their latest model.

The quantity of ketones made is individual. Also, as we get more adapted, the body tends to have less excess ketones floating around. I've been keto adapted since 2009 (I'm now 66) and will commonly test between 0.3 and 0.7 on a morning test, with most near the lower end of that range. I'm not particularly low anything. On a recent day, my Cronometer log shows 2847 calories consumed (2805 burned) with 151 g protein, 131 g carbs (68 g fiber) and 203 g fat. I generally fast 16+ hours/day and exercise/strength train quite a bit. If I want more ketones, I can eat less. If I really want more ketones, I can do extended fasting. I have pushed my serum ketones to 8.0 mmol/L and glucose to 32 mg/dL (whence I then went to the gym and set PR's on my lifts).

In your case, sounds like you are early in this process. Adaptation has a number of phases and can continue for many months. Ketones are generally correlated with low insulin. I'm attaching an "elevator speech" below for my friend, Marty Kendall's programs. The standard assumption is that carbs produces the highest insulin response, protein less (about 54% that of carbs) and fat nearly none. While this is true acutely, what Marty learned working with his T1 diabetic wife, is that fat will upregulated insulin over the day rather that acutely. Hence the insulin "area under the curve" can be enough to be material. While it is true if you eat enough fat, your body will tend to make ketones. The fat can also raise insulin to an extent. If you really want to juice the process, a five day water fast should start the process going. If you did this, you should note your blood glucose trending down and stabilizing in the 50's (mg/dL) and ketones increasing. Note, extended fasting may not be appropriate for all. Extending a daily fasting window is good training for extended fasting


Australian engineer, Marty Kendall, has developed systems to help people lose weight (fat) and optimize their metabolism. Helping his type 1 diabetic wife optimize her insulin use and control her glucose sent him down this path. Analyzing data from her closed loop continuous glucose monitor/insulin pump system led him to understand one flaw in common approaches to weight loss. It is assumed that carbs have the greatest insulin response, protein has about half of that of carbs and fat has virtually none. What Marty observed is that fat has a longer impact on basal insulin and a large intake of fat will raise insulin levels over the course of the day. Everyone knows that insulin needs to be low during a period of time of the day for the body to access stored body fat.

Marty knew that the order of fuel use in the body is alcohol, ketones, blood glucose, liver and muscle glycogen (glucose), fatty acids in the blood, then body fat. When the non-body fat fuels are elevated, insulin and glucose are too. So Marty developed a system using a glucometer (blood glucose meter) as a fuel gauge. This system could also be used for individualized hunger training. Hunger training allows a person to get feedback as to whether their hunger feeling is due to low fuel on board, or something else. Marty calls this system, Data Driven Fasting.

Marty also observed that when people optimized their nutrition with nutrient dense foods, to optimize the intake of the important amino acids, vitamins and minerals, they consumed less total calories. This is because the body has nutrient sensing pathways that signal a person to eat till these nutritional requirements have been met. So Marty also developed a course to teach people how to optimize their nutrition, no matter their way of eating (from carnivore to vegan and everything in between).

Here are a number of links were you can explore this in more detail:

Data Driven Fasting:

Hunger Training: & how to use your glucose meter as a fuel gauge.

The best way to measure your weight loss progress (without the scale):
Oxidative Priority: The SECRET to optimising WHEN and WHAT you eat (or the order in which fuels – foods – are used);

Want to lose fat? DON’T aim for stable blood sugars! (Why your CGM could be making you fat):

What is nutrient density?:
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JimH
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Re: Fasting concerns

Postby JimH » Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:39 pm

Thanks Folks,

Lot's of good, useful information!

JIm

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Re: Fasting concerns

Postby Tincup » Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:41 pm

JimH wrote:


One way to step into this is to continue to slowly work on extending your daily fast. After a while, maybe a couple of days a week you could get to eating one meal a day, which would be nearly a 24 hour fast. Then, after a while, maybe you could skip that meal once or twice a week and break the fast the following day. Depending on when you ate your first meal, this could then be a 36 to 42 or even 48 hour fast. Sometimes these longer fasts are needed to have a material period of time with low insulin and really reset the body's metabolism.

Megan Ramos & Jason Fung MD (nephrologist) run a fasting program now titled The Fasting Method. A couple of Megan's presentations might be useful. She's coached many thousands of people.

https://youtu.be/m_4NOniMyTI?t=34272
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY3cHwOyCmw

Fung's YouTube channel
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NewRon
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Re: Fasting concerns

Postby NewRon » Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:44 pm

Apo E4/E4, Male, Age 56


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