Water Fast

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NewRon
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Water Fast

Postby NewRon » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:53 am

4.5 Days Water Fasting

I decided to try a water fast, having done a few episodes of various iterations of the fasting mimicking diet, including Prolon.

viewtopic.php?t=3470

I had found these FMD diets just caused hunger and wanted to try a water fast, to see if it was any more difficult (or easier). It turned out to be easier.

I just took water, Volvic and San Pellegrino, as well as Japanese green tea and in the evenings, hibiscus tea. Sparkling water and warm drinks helped with the initial two or three days of slight hunger pangs.

On day four, however, almost all hunger seemed to reduce dramatically. I woke feeling like I'd had a big meal the previous night and didn't want to eat breakfast. That feeling persisted.

I decided to discontinue the water fast because I'd to go back to work, however, I felt great. I'd only had very slight occasional dizziness on standing up quickly from a squatting position. My sleep improved immensely and lots of my minor aches and pains disappeared. I also noticed this on previous FMD's. Snoring stopped also. It should be noted that I'm not in any way overweight. I'm 6'1" and started at 73kg and ended up at 69kg, a start BMI of 21.3 and end BMI of 20.2.

On day 3, my blood ketones (Freestyle Optium Neo) rose to 5.4 and stayed there.

After I decided to terminate the fast, I decided to try a vegan (ish) keto diet for a week or two. I used Cronometer and tried to get about 2,200kCal each day, with about 65g protein, 20-30g carbs and 200g fat. I was using the Rhonda Patrick smoothie 2 recipe in the mornings to regain micronutrients;

Peel and core of 1 apple
Peel of 1 kiwi
2 sprigs of parsley
15g (10) blueberries
60g avocado
15g carrot
60g celery
20g kale
30g spinach
8g collagen powder
10 lemon juice

I also added the following in the last 2 days;

20g sauerkraut
100g macadamia nuts

I managed to keep with the above-listed macros. My diet used macadamias plus lots of EVOO to attain the macros with a few eggs and hemp hearts.

My ketones stayed in the region of 3.5-4.5mmol, with a Glucose/Ketone index of about 0.9 (again, Optium Neo). One day early on in the diet the ketones dropped to 2, due to a seafood salad I had eating out, possibly due to sugar in the dressing.

All is going well so far, about 12 days after I started the fast/keto diet.

I did test my lipids this morning (Cardiochek PA) and they were quite unusual, though. Usually;

TC 6.6mmol/250mg/dL,
HDL 1.7/66
Trigs 1.4/125
LDL 4.2/162

This morning the results were;

TC 6.6/250
HDL 0.9/35
Trigs 5.43/480
LDL 'Unable to calculate, Trigs too high' warning (so possibly LDL above 5/193

I tested again and I received the same results.

Any thoughts?
Apo E4/E4, Male, Age 56

donbob
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Re: Water Fast

Postby donbob » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:41 am

Some unwelcome changes there. I have been low carb since 2014 and regular fasting since July 2016. It took a while for my body to sort itself out on the new way of eating. My HDL/Tri ratio has been less than one for the last nine clinical tests. I am a regular exerciser.

We are all different and I am not a medical person, but perhaps consider eating to your glucose meter. The idea would be to find a pattern of type of food, amount of food, and timing of meals versus blood glucose. That might give you a way forward. Best wishes.

mike
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Re: Water Fast

Postby mike » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:27 am

NewRon wrote:I decided to discontinue the water fast because I'd to go back to work, however, I felt great.

I have done 3 extended water fasts (13, 17, 19 days), and each time I continued to work without having any cognitive / brain issues...
Sonoma Mike
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NewRon
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Re: Water Fast

Postby NewRon » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:38 pm

donbob wrote:Some unwelcome changes there. I have been low carb since 2014 and regular fasting since July 2016. It took a while for my body to sort itself out on the new way of eating. My HDL/Tri ratio has been less than one for the last nine clinical tests. I am a regular exerciser.

We are all different and I am not a medical person, but perhaps consider eating to your glucose meter. The idea would be to find a pattern of type of food, amount of food, and timing of meals versus blood glucose. That might give you a way forward. Best wishes.



Thanks! My glucose control is usually very good and it was down around 3.5mmol during the latter part of the fast.

The huge surge in triglycerides is worrying, it would seem to indicate an absolutely massive surge in small particles.
Apo E4/E4, Male, Age 56

NewRon
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Re: Water Fast

Postby NewRon » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:41 pm

mike wrote:
NewRon wrote:I decided to discontinue the water fast because I'd to go back to work, however, I felt great.

I have done 3 extended water fasts (13, 17, 19 days), and each time I continued to work without having any cognitive / brain issues...


I didn't think there would be any issues either, as I felt fine. However, it was my first real multi-day fast and I wasn't going to take any chances the first time around.
Apo E4/E4, Male, Age 56

NewRon
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Re: Water Fast

Postby NewRon » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:11 am

Has anyone else any thoughts as to why my HDL has halved and my triglycerides have increased by 400% on this keto diet?
Apo E4/E4, Male, Age 56

Tincup
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Re: Water Fast

Postby Tincup » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:11 am

A couple of thoughts.

1) prior to this, how consistent have the results been with your Cardiocheck
2) When I eat a large bolus of fat, it can take a long time to clear the Tg's. I found a paper, where they fed a large fat bolus to normals. They would take ~8 hours to return to normal. I would take ~18 hours or so, testing with some version of Cardiocheck.
3) When I test at the end of an extended fast (5 or 7 days), Tgs are somewhat elevated, because I'm using fat for fuel.

Because you are eating a high fat diet - I calculate 86% fat calories - I'd vote for #2.

I'll PM you a link to the paper.
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NewRon
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Re: Water Fast

Postby NewRon » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:34 am

Hi Tincup,

1. Results of Cardiochek PA are reasonably consistent with my physician drawn bloods, within about 10-15%, I'd say. I use an app on my mobile to measure the lux intensity and keep the device at the same lux measurement for each test, out of direct/overhead light. Trig's seem to correspond most closely.

2. This sounds most reasonable! I was drinking 100g of EVOO at one go, mixed with lemon juice, in order to get 200g fat daily. Then I switched to macadamia nuts (2 days before the test) by blending them in water, then adding the ingredients of the Rhonda Patrick smoothie 2. It's desperately hard to get calories, whilst keeping carbs and protein within limits, thus lots of EVOO.

3. This may also be an additive factor, although I stopped fasting on the 3rd April and tested on the 11th April.

I also developed slight evening heartburn on the last day of the fast and this has mostly stayed with me on the keto diet. I successfully use apple cider vinegar in water to quell it.

Additionally, my mouth and skin are quite dry since the fast finished. I drink many litres of water, green tea, rooibos tea and hibiscus tea each day, necessitating many toilet visits.

Every day's a school day!
Apo E4/E4, Male, Age 56

Tincup
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Re: Water Fast

Postby Tincup » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:31 pm

NewRon wrote:
I did test my lipids this morning (Cardiochek PA) and they were quite unusual, though. Usually;

TC 6.6mmol/250mg/dL,
HDL 1.7/66
Trigs 1.4/125
LDL 4.2/162

This morning the results were;

TC 6.6/250
HDL 0.9/35
Trigs 5.43/480
LDL 'Unable to calculate, Trigs too high' warning (so possibly LDL above 5/193



Here is how LDL is typically calculated.

"The Friedewald equation is the equation typically used to calculate LDL-C concentration when a lipid panel is performed. The equation is:

LDL cholesterol (mg/dL) = total cholesterol – HDL cholesterol – (triglycerides/5),' From: https://education.questdiagnostics.com/faq/FAQ164-retired0

Using md/dL

LDL = 250 -35 - (480/5) = 250-35-96= 119
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NewRon
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Re: Water Fast

Postby NewRon » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:16 pm

Well Tincup, that's good news (for a change)! I know 119 might not sound like a good LDL to many but with the high LDL's I've been seeing recently, I'll take it :)

Now if my Trig/HDL ratio wasn't so high (since the fast, only), I'd break out the (natural) champagne;

https://www.docsopinion.com/2014/07/17/ ... hdl-ratio/
Apo E4/E4, Male, Age 56


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