Does having APOE4 protect you from getting the Coronavirus? .... Maybe

Insights and discussion from the cutting edge with reference to journal articles and other research papers.
zc_hl
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:29 am

Re: Does having APOE4 protect you from getting the Coronavirus? .... Maybe

Postby zc_hl » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:50 pm

Tincup wrote:
aphorist wrote:First clinical trial for Coronavirus - 24 G IV infusion of Vitamin C
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04264533

It's a very high amount, probably to prove efficacy. Normal IV's are like 10-15 grams. But, long story short if you have some vitamin C daily... even like 200 mg, it will likely help prevent coronavirus. 2 grams is the upper tolerable limit in adults, AFAIK.


My understanding is that at high levels of IV Vit C, it acts as a pro-oxidant, so a different method of action.

I linked to Dr. Herbert Shelton's book "The Science and Fine Art of Fasting" in this post. This is an old book, I think the last edition was published in 1963. However Shelton had supervised the fasting of ~40,000 people on extended fasts. On p 259, "If fasting is instituted at the very outset of whooping cough the child may never whoop. Vomiting does not occur in whooping cough when no food is given. Scarlet fever ends in four to five days and no complications develop. Measles, pneumonia, diphtheria, small-pox, etc., soon end if no food is given. I have fasted numerous children and babies, in both acute and chronic diseases (no infants in chronic disease) and it is my observation that they bear fasting well, often making much less fuss about it than adults." Hence an interesting thought - just start fasting. I would probably try it, though not recommending to others.


Same for me. I'm pretty convinced that fasting increases the innate immune response. I've heard that children immune system tend to be more on the innate side than adaptive and they survive the disease.


anotherdreamer
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:18 pm

Re: Does having APOE4 protect you from getting the Coronavirus? .... Maybe

Postby anotherdreamer » Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:32 pm

stana wrote:https://tbsnews.net/international/coronavirus-chronicle/100-year-old-man-recovered-coronavirus-53548?amp


For as lousy as this gene is in some ways, it definitely gives us a leg up in apocalyptic-type situations. I guess the apoe4 figures it has to pop its head up and prove why it's still around every now and then.

aphorist
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:47 am

Re: Does having APOE4 protect you from getting the Coronavirus? .... Maybe

Postby aphorist » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:48 pm

Tincup wrote:
aphorist wrote:First clinical trial for Coronavirus - 24 G IV infusion of Vitamin C
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04264533

It's a very high amount, probably to prove efficacy. Normal IV's are like 10-15 grams. But, long story short if you have some vitamin C daily... even like 200 mg, it will likely help prevent coronavirus. 2 grams is the upper tolerable limit in adults, AFAIK.


My understanding is that at high levels of IV Vit C, it acts as a pro-oxidant, so a different method of action.


Vitamin C is an antioxidant, which is why it abrogates the oxidative stress of exercise, if taken concomitantly.

Vitamin C probably lessens a cytokine storm during the illness, but im not 100% sure. I bought some.

User avatar
TheBrain
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 1352
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:12 pm

Re: Does having APOE4 protect you from getting the Coronavirus? .... Maybe

Postby TheBrain » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:44 am

This information from Mike Mutzel, MS, from High Intensity Health arrived in my email InBox yesterday. I’ve watched the first two of three videos, and there’s no mention of ApoE4. However, this thread seems like the best place to post it.

I need to watch these videos multiple times. He talks fast and packs in a lot of information. But one thing he’s learned from all of the COVID-19 research to date is that people with a higher genetic expression of the ACE2 receptor are better off, not worse off. He said it sounds counterintuitive, but that’s what the research is showing to date. He said to take it all with a grain of salt, given how early we are into gathering information about COVID-19.

Subject: Coronavirus: features of survivors VS non-survivors & who's at increased risk

Hi there,

I’m sure your inbox is flooded with Coronavirus prevention tips and such, so I’ll keep this brief.

For what it’s worth, last week I was uninterested in this whole COVID-19 story but…

after reading these recent pathology reports (which found extensive lung tissue damage even prior to the onset of any symptoms) I’ve changed my tune.

These reports caused me to obsessively read any and all published medical literature on the virus.

To help you better understand some oft overlooked details about this highly-transmissible SARS-CoV-2 virus (and possibly better manage your risk) I’ve summarized this recently published research.

If you’re interested here's two video summaries: http://bit.ly/2QgMQzy

Disclaimer: my physician friends in the trenches have informed me this highly transmissible virus doesn’t discriminate--even otherwise healthy 30 somethings are affected and can have severe disease requiring significant ICU time.

That said, the published clinical characteristics show increased disease severity and mortality in older males and adults with cardiometabolic disease comorbidities.

If nothing else, I hope you find these findings interesting :-)

Stay healthy,

Mike

P.S. What is the ACE2 receptor and why it’s relevant to diabetics, males and the Coronavirus risk conversation? http://bit.ly/2QgMQzy


Here’s the direct link to Mile’s videos: https://highintensityhealth.com/coronav ... rbidities/
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!

User avatar
TheresaB
Mod
Mod
Posts: 1030
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:46 am
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: Does having APOE4 protect you from getting the Coronavirus? .... Maybe

Postby TheresaB » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:25 am

If we’re “good” ApoE4s, having read the primer, following the advice there and from Dr Bredesen, we have concentrated on insulin sensitivity and have low HbA1cs and according to this David Sinclair tweet thread, that is helpful with this virus
sinclair 1.jpg

sinclair 2.jpg

sinclair 3.jpg


If you can't read the attachments, he says (among other things), "It may explain why diabetics and elderly are more susceptible. Blood sugar levels usually increase as we get older, increasing the amount of glycated hemoglobin (HbA1c) (I've tweeted about this before). The authors suggest these people would be more susceptible to because the virus could more easily disrupt the heme in red blood cells. If so, the virus is very smart: it destroys the lung so patients can't take up oxygen AND reduces the body's ability to carry oxygen.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-Theresa
ApoE 4/4

User avatar
TheBrain
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 1352
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:12 pm

Re: Does having APOE4 protect you from getting the Coronavirus? .... Maybe

Postby TheBrain » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:17 am

Thanks, Theresa. What you shared is reassuring, but I hadn’t come across the information about disruption to the heme in red blood cells.

That issue raises concern for me about my husband. For years, several of his red blood cell markers have been below the range. He has even been turned away for giving blood donations several times. I showed his blood test results to my FM PA, and she said “He’s anemic!” But my husband’s doctor isn’t the least bit concerned about it. My husband takes an iron supplement but still tests low. I’m wondering if this matter needs to be revisited. All that said, his HbA1c is good.

Another thing I wonder about is the comorbidity of coronary artery disease. For those of us with a high coronary calcium score but no symptoms, are we in the high risk category for COVID-19? My CAC is in the 99+ percentile for women my age, but based on my second EBCT last year, my disease is stable, meaning < 15% progression per year. (My results showed 11% progression per year.)

My MD doesn’t think I’m at high risk, but he poo-poos CAC testing. He’s stuck in the Framington Heart Study past.
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!

NewRon
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:04 am

Re: Does having APOE4 protect you from getting the Coronavirus? .... Maybe

Postby NewRon » Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:35 am

Tincup wrote:
aphorist wrote:First clinical trial for Coronavirus - 24 G IV infusion of Vitamin C
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04264533

It's a very high amount, probably to prove efficacy. Normal IV's are like 10-15 grams. But, long story short if you have some vitamin C daily... even like 200 mg, it will likely help prevent coronavirus. 2 grams is the upper tolerable limit in adults, AFAIK.


My understanding is that at high levels of IV Vit C, it acts as a pro-oxidant, so a different method of action.

I linked to Dr. Herbert Shelton's book "The Science and Fine Art of Fasting" in this post. This is an old book, I think the last edition was published in 1963. However Shelton had supervised the fasting of ~40,000 people on extended fasts. On p 259, "If fasting is instituted at the very outset of whooping cough the child may never whoop. Vomiting does not occur in whooping cough when no food is given. Scarlet fever ends in four to five days and no complications develop. Measles, pneumonia, diphtheria, small-pox, etc., soon end if no food is given. I have fasted numerous children and babies, in both acute and chronic diseases (no infants in chronic disease) and it is my observation that they bear fasting well, often making much less fuss about it than adults." Hence an interesting thought - just start fasting. I would probably try it, though not recommending to others.


https://news.yale.edu/2016/09/08/listen ... infections

Would this suggest that fasting with a viral infection is bad?
Apo E4/E4, Male, Age 56

User avatar
SusanJ
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 2801
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:33 am
Location: Central Florida

Re: Does having APOE4 protect you from getting the Coronavirus? .... Maybe

Postby SusanJ » Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:33 am

NewRon wrote:Would this suggest that fasting with a viral infection is bad?


I remember reading that study when it came out and found it very interesting.

We found that, whereas glucose utilization was required for survival in models of viral inflammation, it was lethal in models of bacterial inflammation. Concordantly, we found that, whereas ketogenesis was required for survival in bacterial inflammation, it was dispensable in the case of viral inflammation. Unexpectedly, we found that these effects on mortality were largely independent of the degree of inflammation and pathogen clearance. In the case of viral inflammation, lethality subsequent to inhibition of glucose utilization appeared to be mediated by type I IFN signaling on target tissues—likely the brain—which require glucose to mitigate the ER stress response and CHOP-mediated cellular dysfunction. In the case of bacterial inflammation, lethality subsequent to glucose administration appeared to be mediated by suppression of ketogenesis, which led to impaired resistance to ROS-mediated damage in the brain (Figure 7). Thus, our results suggest that distinct inflammatory responses may be coupled with specific metabolic programs in order to support unique tissue tolerance mechanisms that, when uncoupled, lead to enhanced immunopathology, leading to death.

[Emphasis mine.]

It's a mousy study, but here's the full study if you want to read more.

User avatar
SusanJ
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 2801
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:33 am
Location: Central Florida

Re: Does having APOE4 protect you from getting the Coronavirus? .... Maybe

Postby SusanJ » Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:39 am

Thinking that this comment, that glucose suppressed ketogenesis in bacterial infection and impaired ROS response, might also suggest a mechanism how E4s, utilizing ketogenesis, survived bacterial infections better than others over the millennia.

[Addition] Please don't assume this means to break out the ice cream carton. Remember that diabetes is a high risk comorbidity with Covid-19, so it really suggests that you need healthy glucose control for your body and cells to use it properly:
The precise mechanism whereby IFN signaling converges with glucose utilization programs also remains to be fully resolved, but recent studies demonstrated that interferon signaling leads to changes in glucose uptake, which is important for the antiviral response (Burke et al., 2014).


Return to “Science and Research”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AKA, maddanwill and 9 guests