Serotonin, Depression and SSRI Antidepressants

[SusanJ]

Jafa, since it's a recent thing, it might be worth thinking about any supplements you've added recently, or within the last 6 months, and trial dropping one at a time for a week or two to see what happens. You might find that you are sensitive to something, or perhaps taking too high of a dose. Sometimes we need to start higher to break a log jam, then need to drop back when we start feeling better, so staying at the initial dose starts causing side effects.

My example is having to drop back on folate and B12 after needing initial higher doses - they messed with my neurotransmitters too much at higher doses (hence the switch to adding some creatine and PC).

And the only thing I might suggest is taking your second TMG at lunch. Taking it late might be pushing methylation in some way that messes with your neurotransmitters.

[Stavia]

Jafa, I'm at the annual GP conference this weekend. Very good presentation yesterday about CBD oil which is available here on ordinary prescription under section 29. Apparently useful in insomnia amongst other things. I have all the info re doses, side effects, sourcing, cost etc. Some mousie studies showing possible histological AD benefit.
I was going to look for the cannabinoid thread and ask the community but this may be a good place to throw it out.
Thoughts?

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[TheresaB]

I was going to look for the cannabinoid thread and ask the community but this may be a good place to throw it out.

If you have time, which I know it's precious for you, take a gander at the cannabinoid Wiki article too. https://www.apoe4.info/wiki/Cannabinoid ... ,_Cannabis
Forward any studies or info I need to add.

[Stavia]

I was going to look for the cannabinoid thread and ask the community but this may be a good place to throw it out.

If you have time, which I know it's precious for you, take a gander at the cannabinoid Wiki article too. https://www.apoe4.info/wiki/Cannabinoid ... ,_Cannabis
Forward any studies or info I need to add.

Thanks Theresa! I forgot it was there!

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[Jafa]

Hi Susan, thanks for your reply. I probably didn’t make it clear enough, but I have always been a poor sleeper, averaging 6hrs per night for decades now - I probably messed it up by pulling all-nighters completing assignments for a Uni degree that I did part time when my children were young. Being of an anxious persuasion hasn’t helped with settled nights.

It’s just that I’ve gone from bad to worse over the last year or so. Scarily when I wake in the wee small hours it can feel as if I’ve had enough sleep and I’m wide awake. However the lack of sleep progressively catches up with me, and I do resort to the occasional zopiclone when I’m out on my feet.

I did stop all my supplements after I discovered I’d been taking too much sunflower lecithin, and reintroduced them slowly after a period of two weeks or so supplement free. Over that time my sleep was no different. I did take the opportunity to revise my stack , cutting down on the B’s and using the methylation-sparing powders suggested by Masterjohn such as glycine and creatine. I will take up your suggestion to change the timing of my second dose of TMG.

Thanks also to you Stavia. I know there’s been a bit of a conversation about CBD oil already on the forum, and I look forward to hearing a bit more from you after conference. I probably will start the 6 week trial of Citalopram.

[Jafa]

Susan, on re-reading your post I do remember that Ben Lynch agrees with you that taking supplements for too long can have counterproductive effects. The supplements I began about a year ago are Resveratrol and Magnesium Threonate, followed shortly after by Ashwagandha and Bacopa. To save time I could try a week or two without these and see if my sleep improves. If it does I could add back one at a time and see what happens. If it doesn't I could do the citalopram trial. I will continue with the ‘Bs’ TMG, curcumin, ubiquinol, ALA and PQQ ( just been taking the last two for a few weeks). The annoying thing is I feel so well, more energy and fitness , and maybe that’s my weight training. If I could sleep more as well... Thanks again Susan.

[Orangeblossom]

I'm unsure on the sleep but understand there is a link with serotonin and melatonin. I've found my sleep has improved since starting fluoxetine again but I need to take it in the mornings or it keeps me awake if I take it in the evenings. (I'm back on my original dose now and is helping me a lot with mood and in general).

In terms of interaction with Curcumin there have been some studies showing together can help depression however the ones I saw were on fluoxetine but it is also a SSRI like citalopram. I'm taking Longvida with the fluoxetine which seems to work well for me. Feeling a lot less stressed and more motivated and exercising more as well as fluoxetine is quite energising I find.

[SusanJ]

Jafa, we're just complicated beings, and while ashwagandha, for example, might work for one, it might not for another because our various pathways to metabolize and utilize supplements are completely different.

I, for one, can't take resveratrol at all. Makes my joints hurt. Figure I get enough other antioxidants in other ways, so I just don't use it, but a great example of how different we all are.

[Jafa]

Thanks Orangeblossom, Very glad to hear of your success with the reintroduction of your SSRI.

Thankyou Susan, Good point regarding getting enough antioxidants anyway.

[HeatherLst]

There’s a lot to read through in this thread, and a lot I’ve bookmarked to go sit with and research further for my family. My son, my husband and my mother all struggle with anxiety and OCD. A good deal of useful information here!

I did want to throw out two things we’ve used with good success. All of my loved ones have been on Prozac at one point or another (and Wellbutrin has been used as well at times.) Prozac has been life-changing in the best possible ways, giving us hope where there hadn’t been any before.

That said, we’ve also found supplements. When my son was 5 1/2 was his first diagnosis with anxiety and OCD, as part of his autism evaluations. We determined then that he was too young for medications at that time, and began an aggressive treatment with very high doses of b vitamins. We used a product called Super Nu Thera and saw significant improvements in his anxiety and social skills. (His teachers and extended family were unaware of the treatment but commented frequently on the changes.) As he approached age ten, the change in hormones made it so we had to treat impulsivity with stimulants—which increased anxiety as well. We ended up on low doses of prozac for four years. In the early days we found we had to cut back and dose opposite the b vitamin complex because he was experiencing the symptoms of seratonin overdose—extremely wide pupils, vomiting, etc.

Until one day while traveling we had an incident where his medication was destroyed, he was having a related meltdown, and we couldn’t get a doctor to prescribe a refill. (His psychiatrist had just passed away from a brain tumor.) Long story short, a friend offered us a roller of frankincense and vetiver essential oils. I was a great skeptic, as we’d tried every natural method around years before. He calmed down, and stayed calm. So I spent a good deal of time in 2014 wanting to know HOW. HOW did that work? A dear friend in medical research at Vanderbilt found us articles on Boswellia and GABA receptors. I don’t pretend to understand it, but I throw it out in case anyone wants to look it up themselves. I believe it was the sesquiterpenes the research is focused on for new anxiety treatments. We’ve used a blend of lavender, vetiver and frankincense in a carrier oil daily for four years now and he has had his ocd, adhd and anxiety under control. My other family use the blend too with success.

Like Marc we now also use daily exercise, food, and the healthy lifestyle prescribed in Bredesen’s work to make a large impact in overall brain health as well. Now we have the genetic data we understand the impact of MTHFR and why the b vitamin complex made such a huge impact. I’m a big fan of Prozac as needed—I know it saved the lives of two people I love dearly. But I wanted to share the success we’ve had with other methods in weaning them off ssri’s and into a better space for them personally.


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