Ketogenic Diet: Transitioning, Experiences, Reasons, Cautions ...

[Stavia]

Love your comments Lance!
Enjoy the seaweed salad. We gotta enjoy our lives too!

[LG1]

Laura honey BHB is a ketone, it stands for beta hydroxy butyrate. Our bodies make it under certain circumstances such as fasting, high fat low carb diet, exercise (and also in some illnesses that don't pertain to us.) Our mitochondria can use it as an alternative fuel source instead of glucose. Please have a look at my newcomers guide, it explains fully how the mitochondria are the little batteries powering our bodies and they can use glucose or ketones of which the commonest is BHB. Its not a supplement. Our bodies have to make it (though there are some supplements that might mimic it but its all very complicated)

In e4s our mitochondria dont work very well in terms of burning glucose. Some of us are trying to make up the gap by getting our bodies to generate ketones for our mitochondria to burn.

Oh my gosh, I knew that. I just didn't get the abbreviation (BHB). My ketone (BHB) levels are currently at .8.

Thanks for taking the time to reply anyway.

[Stavia]

Ah lol. But maybe someone else reading the forum will find the little summary useful.

[Tincup]

Read something the last few days reminding me that some people don' t think its the ketones necessarily its the FFA... Free Fatty Acid ... that as our bodies get better in ketosis of utilizing FFA, we get lactate. Of the preferred brain fuels, I think it goes lactate, ketones, then glucose. Lactate from hard exercise, fasting to eat the kill (with some ketones sprinkled in), and glucose for when our bodies produce it and also for when we eat berries seasonally.
...
FFA metabolism seems to take a while ... not sure if there are things that can be done to speed it up? "Fat adapted"... easy to say, easy to spell... think it took me over a year. That seems to be when keto made more sense to me (beyond slimming my waist)... I got stronger my brain fog generally cleared up. I think my body started to consume lactate more often and decided it was at least as good as glucose.

I certainly agree that while initial adaptation occurs over a several week period, there certainly is ongoing adaptation that is much more gradual. My recollection is that initially I ate 3 times a day, for perhaps a year, then went to 2x/day for several years and have been eating 1x/day for 8 months. None of these changes were traumatic (the initial several weeks were not the most fun I've ever had). It occurred to me today that my work colleagues eat often - they were just fixing lunch. Don't know why that thought jumped out today. I experience it when out with people in activities (skiing, hiking, climbing & etc.). They routinely have to stop and eat (and eat before and after). It now seems very odd to me and consumes a lot of time, though I'm sure they think I'm very odd...

[LG1]

George, that's exactly right. It is a gradual thing. My change in diet happened over a long period of time so that by the time I 'went keto' I was half way there. Also, so many mistakes were made when I decided to start.... too much protein, hidden carbs and hidden protein (milk), too much food at once, not enough food... takes a little time to get it right. I am now at that same point where you mentioned eating far less frequently and it is really great. I used to get hypoglycemia but now I never do.

[circular]

Of the preferred brain fuels, I think it goes lactate, ketones, then glucose. Lactate from hard exercise, fasting to eat the kill (with some ketones sprinkled in), and glucose for when our bodies produce it and also for when we eat berries seasonally.

I've heard about the lactate too. I'm now wondering about ribose, since I supplement small amount. I read it's not recognized as a fuel by the body but may stay off it just in case for now.

I've also read that there are some brain cells and other body cells that do require some glucose, implied that for them it's probably not as a last in line fuel source. I didn't save these references and they didn't extrapolate. I just made a mental note of it. I think if there are tissues/cells that do require glucose itself we should be aware of that and feed them?

[LG1]

I've also read that there are some brain cells and other body cells that do require some glucose, implied that for them it's probably not as a last in line fuel source. I didn't save these references and they didn't extrapolate. I just made a mental note of it. I think if there are tissues/cells that do require glucose itself we should be aware of that and feed them?

Well, I am no expert but I do recall that our body makes glucose, regardless of eating carbohydrates. I am pretty darn confident that is right. If I am wrong I will have learned something of vital importance!

[circular]

My understanding is the same LG1. I know we can make some glucose from protein. What I'm not sure of is does anyone know how much glucose any tissues that require it need, and can the amount they need be made by the body? I just wonder if it's really been studied much, or is this one of the unknowns about long-term ketogenic dieting?

Is this why some keto dieters do 'carb night' or is that just because they miss carb foods.

[Hubbs]

Learning from many of you here I have been fasting 15-16 hours each day without breakfast for a couple of months now. But ketone testing strips showing no change of color at all. What other ways to know if I have some level of Keto?

Also now by doing glucose home testing I learned that my morning glucose after 12hour fasting is 20+ points higher than what was at bedtime (80-90), and it continue rise up slowly through out morning till lunch time. So my body compensate fasting with making more glucose. Do any of you have had this situation before you are Keto adapted? Would eat breakfast but skip lunch helps to stabilize glucose level and still get to keto?

I am confused what is best for my game plan. On diabetes related website it says skipping breakfast will result in higher glucose level or higher post-meal spikes for the rest of the day. I did get glucose reading at 149. 2-hour after starting lunch. Off cause, I am not sure how accurate my Accu-Check Nano meter is. This morning upon rising I repeated the glucose test three times within 1 minute and I got three different readings - 101, 96. 91.

[LanceS]

My understanding is the same LG1. I know we can make some glucose from protein. What I'm not sure of is does anyone know how much glucose any tissues that require it need, and can the amount they need be made by the body? I just wonder if it's really been studied much, or is this one of the unknowns about long-term ketogenic dieting?

Is this why some keto dieters do 'carb night' or is that just because they miss carb foods.

I don't totally recall, but I believe there are red blood cells and some cells in the brain (on the periphery I think) that maybe don't have mitochondria and require glucose?... ringing a bell but the point is you need blood glucose. I think astrocytes also use glucose but can use ketones ... they are a link to the brain from the blood I believe and take the glucose/ketones and turn it into usable products transported into the brain? I think the liver is another one where the must be glucose involved and I think it involves a couple other organs but we're not talking alot of glucose.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25832906

Available as full text if you can't sleep.

I think the body can make it... I think fat people can make it peripherally and thus they don't necessarily have as much control ... but this was inference from studies... may not be born out but I'd probably bet on it, cuz I'm a fool like that.

No expert so all with a grain of salt.

As to carbs... one reason for carb night is so the body doesn't down regulate the thyroid. Recently did that for a while... was crushing it on the scale... ate way too little, way too little protein and also ate alot of brussel sprouts. Low calories, low protein, high goiterogens (sp)... predictable low thryroid. Stupid me I should have realized when I had difficulty keeping body warm. More diversity in my meals, and pushing up my calorie counts and I feel fine. I was doing carb ups every couple of weeks but now I'm probably a weekly guy until I get another set of blood tests back. I am probably going to incorporate more carbs into my every day, but we'll see... my brain seems to like deep ketosis. It is never fun adding foods to a routine. You're going to bump your head quite a bit. In the same place.