Guardian Reports on Silicon Execs 'Extreme' Fasting

[SusanJ]

Stavia, I do think BMI is a big factor. We low BMI folks probably just don't have the fat reserves needed to do long fasts. Or maybe we have a different ratio of fast/slow muscle fiber that allows our BMIs to go low in keto diets? The more I workout, the more I have to watch my calories like a hawk to keep my weight up and I haven't figured out the why behind that one. High fat calories don't seem to help as much as starchy carbs unlike how high fat seems to work for others.

Ski, I posted the CR stuff to circ's question about CR and stem cells - should have labelled it as such.

Fascinating discussion!

[Ski]

Good points Susan. I run around a 21 BMI and my body is very good at telling me when I need more calories or not. Think youre onto something with the high fat calories vs carb. On the FMD, even when I did eat, it was the sweet potato that seemed to help me get through, not the higher fat avocados, that still made me feel like I had eaten nothing. Being more of a snacker I did know it was going to be hard, I just was not prepared for how weak it left me and that to me is not a good sign IMO.

[Stavia]

hmmm...muscle... I've got the fast twitch variant, and I'm very strong and have high muscle mass. What have you lean guys n gals who don't fast well have in the way of muscle?
I keep thinking of Tincup who is very lean and fasts effortlessly, but also very strong.

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[circular]

My muscles are no longer very good because my connective tissue disorder prevents me from being able to strengthen them as much as I used to. But when I could lift more weight I gained muscle mass very quickly and easily. I've always been a slow runner, so no fast twitching there.

[KatieS]

Susan, I suspect that latent autoimmune disease to be behind our prone to underweight, ectomorph status.

[SusanJ]

Katie, probably part of the equation, too. Fasting is a stressor, and the last thing the immune system needs when it's out of whack.

The max fast I've done is 24 hours, and it took a couple days to gain back the weight. I just figure I'd lose way too much weight with a multiple day fast, and it would take muscle with it. Think it just comes with the territory of low BMI. And the only sure way for me to put weight back on is with higher carbs. Oh, well, another mystery of life.

[Jafa]

Yeah Susan, my experience is similar. HFLC dosnt seem to maintain my weight either unless I sit on the couch all day. I am considering doing two days a week higher carb, but a bit hesitant for fear of losing my (lowish) ketones. I have heard mention of some on the forum having high carb days. How has that worked out?

[apod]

Yeah Susan, my experience is similar. HFLC dosnt seem to maintain my weight either unless I sit on the couch all day. I am considering doing two days a week higher carb, but a bit hesitant for fear of losing my (lowish) ketones. I have heard mention of some on the forum having high carb days. How has that worked out?

I've been experimenting pretty extensively with titrating carbs in around HFLC eating. I find with consistent, uninterrupted ketosis that I feel great, but I do generally crave more calories (for me, it's something like 2,600-2,800 or so to satiety), where this does seem to increase weight gain over the long haul (although not to unhealthy levels.) I think I could hack this with a high protein intake, but I do notice that I don't feel as good with high protein (beyond say 80-100g/d.) With consistent, uninterrupted ketosis I also find that my carb sensitivity dramatically increases (as insulin sensitivity or first-phase insulin decreases) -- basically, if I eat outside of HFLC, I'm going to be spiking and soon-after crashing blood sugar, yawning for a few hours.

Right now, I do ~2 days of resistance exercise/wk via full body, compound movements, usually with one day of rest between them, with rice + sweet potato + extra fruit in place of fat consumed PWO somewhere in the late afternoon or early evening (often at a slight caloric surplus.) I haven't done any glucose testing around this, looking at it as hormetic stress if the numbers don't look great (although I am curious what those numbers are and will have to reinvestigate sometime.) I might be a little irritable on my carby days, which is odd because it seems like it would be relaxing, and I might be a little hungrier the morning following a carby day, which is also sort of odd, because the overall effect is reduced hunger over the weekly average. I would imagine ketones are back up and online before my next not-carby meal. Right now, my BMI is maybe up around 23, with body fat down around 8-9%.

[SusanJ]

Jafa, my approach has been to eat more carbs at my mid-day meal than later. I figure I can burn them off during the afternoon and not spike insulin or BG too much. I don't feel any carb craving or crash unless I eat too many carbs a couple days in a row. I'm usually around 100-120 g/day but have done up to 140 g per day without those side effects. Carbs include carby veggies and some rice now and then.

Disclaimer, I have never checked this with any sort of meter. I hate anything poking my fingers and have yet to decide it's worth it. If I'm spiking, then maybe I'll just adopt apod's hormesis theory.

[circular]

When I'm good I eat my carbs soon before or after doing some exercise. It makes such a difference in my insulin response.