Gundry Diet and Choline

[PeterM]

I’m stymied people. For those of us who follow a version of Dr Gundry’s diet—and who additionally fall into the Chris Masterjohn “you need the equivalent of EIGHT egg yolks a day” camp—how do we reconcile eating less animal protein with obtaining sufficient choline for our apoe4 brains? For all the reading I’ve done I really should have an answer to this question, but I don’t. As is, I’m eating two egg yolks and around 5-6 oz of animal protein daily (wild-caught fish in a leafy green keto context.) But halving the animal protein will leave me in a daily choline deficit I cannot reasonably make up using only non-animal sources. Unfortunately I’ve gotten so lost in the weeds on choline supplementation I don’t know what I think. In any case I think Gundry’s Blue Zone logic is a fairly compelling. I’m an old Pritikin devotee and had a zero calcium score 14 years ago just after quitting Pritikin at age 56. (Blood sugar creep.) So I’m a believer that less animal protein is not a bad idea, at least for me. Also I’m someone who has had many basal and squamous cell skin cancers which is a significant red flag for other cancers. The Gundry diet seems fairly anti-cancer—although I realize that is an over-simplification. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[SusanJ]

Yep, well, mine comes in at 9 egg equivalents per day. That said, I approach the problem with some food, some supplements and making sure that my methylation pathways are working well. If methylation is not working, choline will be used to create methyl groups, when you want it to be used in the choline pathways. It's about preserving choline for its intended use, and, sometimes, providing the end product, instead of relying on the choline to be converted.

I have an old post on knowing what part of your choline pathway is whacked. For example, I have problems in the CHDH genes that convert choline, so instead of more choline, I supplement directly with 1000mg of TMG per day. Supplementing alpha-GPC might also work if you feel you have acetylcholine issues. Some folks have good luck with phosphatidylcholine, which is where a majority of your choline goes and/or creatine, which is another way to spare methyl groups.

Anyway, here's the post link. Hope it might give you some ideas of how to tackle this without a lot more protein or eggs.

[TheresaB]

I take a choline supplement.

[PeterM]

Yep, well, mine comes in at 9 egg equivalents per day. That said, I approach the problem with some food, some supplements and making sure that my methylation pathways are working well. If methylation is not working, choline will be used to create methyl groups, when you want it to be used in the choline pathways. It's about preserving choline for its intended use, and, sometimes, providing the end product, instead of relying on the choline to be converted.

I have an old post on knowing what part of your choline pathway is whacked. For example, I have problems in the CHDH genes that convert choline, so instead of more choline, I supplement directly with 1000mg of TMG per day. Supplementing alpha-GPC might also work if you feel you have acetylcholine issues. Some folks have good luck with phosphatidylcholine, which is where a majority of your choline goes and/or creatine, which is another way to spare methyl groups.

Anyway, here's the post link. Hope it might give you some ideas of how to tackle this without a lot more protein or eggs.

Thanks, Susan. Appreciate the link. The perfect kick-start.

[PeterM]

I take a choline supplement.

Just wondering which choline supplement you settled on. Meaning is it basic choline bitartate? Thanks.

[TheresaB]

Just wondering which choline supplement you settled on. Meaning is it basic choline bitartate? Thanks.

My research was not vigorous, I went with a brand I trust and have had very good luck with. I'd feel more comfortable if you did your own research to settle on a supplement.

[PeterM]

Just wondering which choline supplement you settled on. Meaning is it basic choline bitartate? Thanks.

My research was not vigorous, I went with a brand I trust and have had very good luck with. I'd feel more comfortable if you did your own research to settle on a supplement.

Of course! I simply had a trace memory that choline bitartate was somewhat frowned upon from when I earlier looked into this complex issue, and as you are a discriminating person I was curious if the bitartate form was even a viable option. Always appreciate your input. Thanks.

[floramaria]

I simply had a trace memory that choline bitartate was somewhat frowned upon from when I earlier looked into this complex issue, and as you are a discriminating person I was curious if the bitartate form was even a viable option. Always appreciate your input. Thanks.

Hi PeterM, I just happened to have come across a reference to choline bitartate in another thread, which I copied below. You might check out that thread which has a lot of different ideas regarding choline supplementation. You can find the thread easily by going to the search function (magnifying glass to the left of your user name) and typing in TMAO.

Re: Is there a TMAO / Atherosclerosis risk with supplemental choline / carnitine?
by aiden » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:47 am

Choline bitartrate is not well absorbed in the gut, and may raise TMAO more than other choline supplements. One study showed a 10 to 14 fold increase in TMAO when subjects supplemented with choline bitartrate.

[Tincup]

We had a consult with Gundry Monday and we both are sensitive to eggs so I asked the question. This is an automated transcription of the audio, which I tried to smooth out, but there may be some rough spots still.

• 25:53 - 26:03
Me: So almost as long as we're on on the topic of eggs, what would your suggestion for choline supplements if we're not eating eggs?

• 26:06 - 26:34
Dr. G: Well, you're you know, you're on the plasmalogen precursor supplements. Right? And I've got so many patients that are taking a lot of choline supplements that their tmao is off the wall.

• 26:35 - 26:52
Dale Bredesen, and I probably agree to disagree on this but I think I think we just have to be careful with choline. Okay?

• 26:56 - 27:13
I think the precursors of plasmalogens will be far more important for you than just about anything else.

[aphorist]

IIRC, phosphatidylcholine is the best choline supplement wrt TMAO. I cannot find a reference on this matter, but I remember looking at this information and coming to that conclusion.