Targets for Ketosis using BioSense

[Tincup]

Thank you Tincup for explaining this. I am very grateful for this Forum resource as I navigate this new territory.

It is very common that those with Alz D have compromised cerebral glucose metabolism. In prepublished autopsy data in a study, brains of those Alz D had a lot of genetic defects for glucose metabolism but few defects in ketone metabolism. In this interview, researcher Ben Bikman talks about the glucose metabolism genetics. This link should be queued up at the correct location https://youtu.be/L21Pdyjqwto?t=3835 Supplemental ketones might also be useful https://hvmn.com/

[circular]

I have a doctor's appointment in 2 weeks and I'm hoping to see an improvement from last year's results! My homocysteine was still high last year at 8.1, but down from 12.1 the previous year. My hbA1c was still too high at 5.5, but it was down from 5.7. My doctor expressed a real concern last year for my high cholesterol level, so I'm hoping she doesn't try to push me to take meds. (I won't.) My total cholesterol was 268. LDL was 161. HDL was 95, and my triglycerides were 58. I guess things have been improving, but ever SO SLOWLY.

Linda,

Your Tg/HDL ratio is 58/95 or 0.6. This is somewhat discordant with your HbA1C of 5.5. The average glucose association for A1C is based on an assumption of the life of your red blood cells. Someone who has longer lived RBC's will have a higher A1C. The low Tg's and high HDL's are indicative of lower blood sugar. It would be interesting for you to test your finger stick glucose over the day & see how well it matches with the A1C.

I've had this discordance for years, so I tend to discount the HbA1C. Also, once I had samples from blood draws in the same sitting sent to different labs (by the doctor, not by my request) and they came back with different HbA1C results. I haven't put much stock in it after that, even before understanding that my TG/HDL ratio is good.

I'd love to have the funds to do this with a bunch of biomarkers and see how consistent or inconsistent the results are between labs.

[Nm95ab]

I have been playing around with the Biosense meter for the last few days. Lowest score I have been able to get is 37. I thought it was not working but when wife uses it she gets 0. Tired to eat a bunch of berries at lunch to see if I could lower it but no effect. Is it ok to be constantly at this high level.

[lgoring]

I have been playing around with the Biosense meter for the last few days. Lowest score I have been able to get is 37. I thought it was not working but when wife uses it she gets 0. Tired to eat a bunch of berries at lunch to see if I could lower it but no effect. Is it ok to be constantly at this high level.

Hello Nm95ab and welcome to the ApoE4.info community! It's great to have you here on the forum. I do not know much about the Biosense meter but I hope a few members on can trouble shoot! Here is an article from the Wiki that is all about Ketosis, Meters, and the Ketogenic Diet that may help you find your answer as well. You can also check out the full Wiki to search about any specific information you want to know about ApoE4.

I also wanted to make sure you could find your way around our community and this website. Another great resource is the Primer, written by a physician member of the ApoE4.info community (also ApoE 4/4). It is an introduction to ApoE4 and possible prevention strategies. Also, the How-To Guide can help you navigate the ApoE4.info website. Lastly, you can search for a specific thread topic by clicking on the magnifying glass icon in the upper right corner of the menu bar at the top of the page (How To Search the ApoE4 Site). You could possibly find another thread about BioSense!

[floramaria]

I have been playing around with the Biosense meter for the last few days. Lowest score I have been able to get is 37. I thought it was not working but when wife uses it she gets 0. Tired to eat a bunch of berries at lunch to see if I could lower it but no effect. Is it ok to be constantly at this high level.

Someone with more experience with the Biosense meter will probably have answers for you. (I have none, and only use Keto-Mojo)
But I have some questions.
Are you getting to and staying in this level through a very strict ketogenic diet?
If so, One thing you might try to see how your body responds would be having a significantly high carb meal , or even a high carb day, attempting to cycle out of ketosis. If your carb intake is generally extremely low, maybe the carbs in the berries weren’t sufficient to shift you from a high level of ketosis.

[Tincup]

I have been playing around with the Biosense meter for the last few days. Lowest score I have been able to get is 37. I thought it was not working but when wife uses it she gets 0. Tired to eat a bunch of berries at lunch to see if I could lower it but no effect. Is it ok to be constantly at this high level.

Looking at Julie's 2 Sept post, the estimated conversion from the Biosense is to divide its readings by 8 to approximate serum ketones in mmol/L. So 37/8 = 4.6. I know I'd need to be fasting for several days or cutting my carbs to near zero to get that, but we all differ. In terms of danger, ketoacidosis is around 15 or more. I've gone to 8 mmol/L without issue. I assume you'd have symptoms if you were impacted negatively. So, absent any negatives, maybe just go with it.

[Richard McG]

Thanks for posting this! Of course, it depends upon your goals, but in general Dr. Bredesen recommends an AM fasting goal of 0.5 BHB or higher (which is comparable to 4 ACEs or higher) rising up up to 4 BHB or 32 ACEs at some point during the day. Most people do fine getting to 1-1.5 BHB or 8-12 ACEs at some point during the day; whereas others with greater deficits may need higher levels.

I’ve learned that with BHB, I can get a good sense of my state of ketosis with one test right before I break my fast. That’s when I typically get my highest reading. Whereas with ACEs, I recommend testing at least 3 times per day, preferably 5. First thing in the AM, before meals, and before bed. You want a minimum daily score of 100.

I’m eager to hear of your experience. I ran a 3 week trial with Biosense, concurrently checking BHB. I learned that In general my my BHB tends to be higher than my ACEs, but one day (with pretty strenuous exercise) my ACEs went up really high for me- up to 26. Let us know what you think of it!

Sorry, Julie I just want to make sure I understand with 5 tests a day I should have 100 ACEs with the bio sense? Yikes, I usually am around 7-14...this indicates on the Biosense chart to moderate ketosis or do I have that wrong. So obviously 50 ACE a day is WAY too low you think?

[Julie G]

Sorry, Julie I just want to make sure I understand with 5 tests a day I should have 100 ACEs with the bio sense? Yikes, I usually am around 7-14...this indicates on the Biosense chart to moderate ketosis or do I have that wrong. So obviously 50 ACE a day is WAY too low you think?

Your score at the end of the day should be a minimum of 100, not sure that equates to your accumulated number of ACEs.

[Tincup]

Thanks for posting this! Of course, it depends upon your goals, but in general Dr. Bredesen recommends an AM fasting goal of 0.5 BHB or higher (which is comparable to 4 ACEs or higher) rising up up to 4 BHB or 32 ACEs at some point during the day. Most people do fine getting to 1-1.5 BHB or 8-12 ACEs at some point during the day; whereas others with greater deficits may need higher levels.

I’ve learned that with BHB, I can get a good sense of my state of ketosis with one test right before I break my fast. That’s when I typically get my highest reading. Whereas with ACEs, I recommend testing at least 3 times per day, preferably 5. First thing in the AM, before meals, and before bed. You want a minimum daily score of 100.

I’m eager to hear of your experience. I ran a 3 week trial with Biosense, concurrently checking BHB. I learned that In general my my BHB tends to be higher than my ACEs, but one day (with pretty strenuous exercise) my ACEs went up really high for me- up to 26. Let us know what you think of it!

Sorry, Julie I just want to make sure I understand with 5 tests a day I should have 100 ACEs with the bio sense? Yikes, I usually am around 7-14...this indicates on the Biosense chart to moderate ketosis or do I have that wrong. So obviously 50 ACE a day is WAY too low you think?

The end of day score is explained here.
From the link:
Below is a table relating the average ACEs level over a 24 hour period with the associated score.

[Nm95ab]

I have been playing around with the Biosense meter for the last few days. Lowest score I have been able to get is 37. I thought it was not working but when wife uses it she gets 0. Tired to eat a bunch of berries at lunch to see if I could lower it but no effect. Is it ok to be constantly at this high level.

Someone with more experience with the Biosense meter will probably have answers for you. (I have none, and only use Keto-Mojo)
But I have some questions.
Are you getting to and staying in this level through a very strict ketogenic diet?
If so, One thing you might try to see how your body responds would be having a significantly high carb meal , or even a high carb day, attempting to cycle out of ketosis. If your carb intake is generally extremely low, maybe the carbs in the berries weren’t sufficient to shift you from a high level of ketosis.

I am very ocd with my diet. I consistently have about 3000 calories per day 65% fat 25% carbs 10% protein. With quite a bit of daily exercise. I have not had any food with any added sugar for over 3 years or anything that anyone could consider unhealthy for probably 10 years. I have been also fasting for 8 hours a day for about the last 3 years. Lowest score I got with biosense so far is 30 usually 37-40

I am 44 years old and found out about 2 years ago that I am a 4/4. I have been 180 pounds for over 20 Years but was 240 at 18.